Enguerrand de Flanders

• Preferred Name: Enguerrand de Flanders^{[1] [2] [3]}
  
• Gender: M
  
• FSID: GMXF-5JP
  
• Death: 851 in Flanders, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France at LATI: N0.5328 LONG: E0.1366 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• http://familysearch.org/v1/TitleOfNobility: "Comte de Flandres" with note: Title of Nobility
  
• Birth: 780 in Flanders, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France at LATI: N0.5328 LONG: E0.1366 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• Notes:

  === Life Sketch ===
  Engelran, also Ingelran, Ingelram, Ingelramnum and Enguerrand
  Recorded as the 2nd ruler of Flanders, and the son of Lidéric.
  
  The name of Engelran's mother and that of his wife are not known. He is believed to be the father of Odacer of Flanders (also Audacer)
  
  Genealogia comitum Flandriae Bertiniana [Gen. Com. Fland. III, pp. 305-8], which states that Lidricus, count of Harlebeck, was father of Ingelrannus, who was father of Audacrus, who was father of Balduinus Ferreus ["Lidricus Harlebeccensis comes genuit Ingelrannum. Ingelrannus genuit Audacrum. Audacer genuit Balduinum Ferreum, qui duxit filiam Karoli Calvi nomine Iudith."
  
  While it is believed that Ingelram/ Engelran was in deed a real living person, many doubt that he was the father of Odacer and ancestor of Baldwin I.
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  The Legendary Ancestors of Baldwin of Flanders
  
  No contemporary source gives the parentage of Baldwin I of Flanders. However, by the the late thirteenth century, an elaborate story had developed which provided Baldwin with three generations of ancestry back to a certain Lidéric, who was then said to be the first "forester" of Flanders, followed in the same position by his son Ingelram, grandson Audacer, and great-grandson Baldwin, who then became the first count of Flanders. Widely accepted in earlier times, these legends have been correctly rejected by modern scholarship. Fortunately, the surviving rescensions of the genealogies of the counts of Flanders allow us to see some of the stages by which this legendary scenario developed, and even though a careful examination of these shows us that Ingelram and probably also Lidéric were real individuals, the alleged descent of Baldwin I from them must be discarded.
  
  Much of the early development of the legend appears in the various works edited under the collective title of Genealogiae Comitum Flandriae [MGH SS 9: 302-336, here abbreviated Gen. Com. Fland.], a collection of nine items (identified here by Roman numerals I-IX) written by various authors over a period of several hundred years, having in common that they involve the genealogy or succession of the counts of Flanders. The two earliest parts, dating from the tenth century, say nothing about the parentage of Baldwin I [I. Witger, Genealogia Arnulfi comitis (pp. 302-4, also an important source for later Carolingian genealogy); II. De Arnulfo comite (p. 304)]. However, Witger was emphasizing the Carolingian ancestry of count Arnulf I, and De Arnulfo comite was concerned only with certain close relatives of Arnulf I, so the fact that they do not mention the parentage of Baldwin I does not mean that they did not know it.
  
  The earliest source giving Baldwin's supposed genealogy back to Lidéric is Genealogia comitum Flandriae Bertiniana [Gen. Com. Fland. III, pp. 305-8], which states that Lidricus, count of Harlebeck, was father of Ingelrannus, who was father of Audacrus, who was father of Balduinus Ferreus ["Lidricus Harlebeccensis comes genuit Ingelrannum. Ingelrannus genuit Audacrum. Audacer genuit Balduinum Ferreum, qui duxit filiam Karoli Calvi nomine Iudith." MGH SS 9: 305]. In his introduction to this work, Bethmann dates this version to the reign of count Robert II (1093-1111) [MGH SS 9: 305], but the existence of two different versions which diverge after Baldwin V suggests an earlier version composed under Baldwin V or Baldwin VI [see MGH SS 9: 306]. As discussed in more detail below, later versions of Gen. Com. Fland. added major elaborations to this account.
  
  However, Genealogia comitum Flandriae Bertiniana is not the earliest source to mention Lidéric. That honor goes to Annales Blandinienses, which, under the year 836, in an eleventh century hand, states that "Lidricus comes obiit", followed by "et Arlabeka sepelitur" added in a twelfth century hand [Grierson (1937a), 11; Annales Blandinienses has also been edited by Ludwig Bethmann in MGH SS 5: 20-34, but the fact that "et Arlabeka sepelitur" was in a later hand is not indicated]. One of the sources used by the Annales Blandinienses as we have them today was an earlier version of the same annals from the middle of the tenth century, called the tenth century Annales Blandinienses by Grierson (1937a), which were also used as a source by Annales Elmarenses, Annales Formosolenses, and Annales Elnonenses. These annals are also edited in Grierson (1937a). Annales Elmarenses were first edited by Grierson, while Monumenta Germaniae Historica contains editions of Annales Formosolenses by Bethmann [MGH SS 5: 34-6] and of Annales Elnonenses by Pertz [MGH SS 5: 10-20, with the entries in one twelfth century hand separated and edited as Annales Elnonenses minores (pp.17-20), and the remaining annals edited as Annales Elnonenses maiores (pp. 11-17)]. The Annales Blandinienses also mention Ingelram and Audacer, but with an important difference: although the affiliation of Audacer as father of Baldwin is given, no genealogical affiliations are given for Lidéric or Ingelram. The Chronicon Vedastinum, discussed in more detail under Audacer below, is another relatively early source which gives the name of Baldwin's father without showing any knowledge of his alleged earlier ancestors. This indicates an earlier tradition in which the name of the father of Baldwin I was regarded as known, but in which there is no evidence that any earlier generations in the genealogy were known.
  
  From this, along with the more detailed individual discussions for Lidéric, Ingelram, and Audacer which appear below, two major points emerge:
  
  No later than the middle of the eleventh century (and probably as early as the tenth), there were local annalists who believed that Baldwin's father was named Audacer/Odoacer, but who did not indicate any significant details about the latter, or any knowledge of genealogical affiliations for Lidéric or Ingelram.
  The chronology indicated for Lidéric and Ingelram (whose career overlaps ignificantly with that of Baldwin I), as shown by these early sources, does not fit well with the claim that they were respectively great-grandfather and grandfather of Baldwin I of Flanders.
  The natural conclusion is that the name of the father of Baldwin I belongs to an earlier level of the tradition, while the alleged affiliation of Lidéric and Ingelram to Audacer and Baldwin is a later invention, made when the genealogists were seeking to extend the ancestry beyond Baldwin's father, and found two usable names for that purpose in their sources. Although not supported by contemporary evidence, the name of Baldwin's father can be accepted as probable, but the genealogical links to Ingelram and Lidéric need to be rejected as later inventions, even though we can probably accept Lidéric's existence (as we certainly can for Ingelram).
  
  https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/baldw001.htm
  
  === #Générale# Naissance : vers 808 ou plut ===
  #Générale# Naissance : vers 808 ou plutôt vers 800
  
  === Made a Count about 851. Source: 'Royalty ===
  Made a Count about 851. Source: 'Royalty for Commoners', Roderick W. Stuart, 1993, p. 172.
  
  === W Betham: Genealogical Tables Tab. 567 ===
  W Betham: Genealogical Tables Tab. 567
  
  === Note ===
  In Flanders Fields by John McCrea.... https://www.google.com/search?q=Poem%20Flanders%20fields%20the%20poppies%20grow%20YouTube
  
  Léonard Cohen’s version was chosen because the Cohens are descendent.from this area of France, which is probably why he posted.. « IN FLANDERS FIELD the poppies grow »poem on YouTube
  
  === Naissance : vers 808 ou plutôt vers 800 ===
  Naissance : vers 808 ou plutôt vers 800
  
  === THE PLANTAGENET ANCESTRY (GS NUMBER Q940 ===
  THE PLANTAGENET ANCESTRY (GS NUMBER Q940 D2T) P.19; THE GENEALOGICAL HISTORY OF THE CREKE FAMILY (GS NUMBER 929.242 C878C) PEDIGREE NUMBER 44;
  
  === #Générale# Naissance : vers 808 ou plutô ===
  #Générale# Naissance : vers 808 ou plutôt vers 800
  
  === !Royal Lines-Adams Americans of Royal De ===
  !Royal Lines-Adams Americans of Royal Descent-Brownings American Genealogy Compendium-Virkus Pilgrim Dictionary-Savage Colonists Ancestral Roots- Weis Printed Family Histories Records of the Genealogical Society
  
  === [Greene.FTW] [INDIV2.DAT] Governor of F ===
  [Greene.FTW] [INDIV2.DAT] Governor of Flanders Source: Ahnentafel for Edward III of England SOUR Dee, Danielle Marie. AOL user Dani Dee. File uploaded to AOL "Van Arsdale/Crawford/Hayes" (danidee.zip) on Nov 29, 1994; Buell001.zip
  
  === !GENERAL:Pedigree Resource File CD 4, Pe ===
  !GENERAL:Pedigree Resource File CD 4, Pedigree Resource File CD 4, (Salt Lake City, UT: Intellectual Reserve, Inc., 1999) !GENERAL:Ancestral File (TM), Ancestral File (TM), The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, June 1998 (c), data as of 5 JAN 1998 Repository: Family History Library 35 N West Temple Street Salt Lake City, UT 84150 USA !GENERAL:Ancestral File (TM), Ancestral File (TM), The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, June 1998 (c), data as of 5 JAN 1998 Repository: Family History Library 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, UT 84150 USA !GENERAL:Ancestral File (TM), Ancestral File (TM), The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, June 1998 (c), data as of 5 JAN 1998 Repository: Family History Library 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, UT 84150 USA
  
  === Line 395017 from GEDCOM File not recogni ===
  Line 395017 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long:
  NAME Ingelram Governor of Flanders //
  
  Governor of Flanders 802 -824
  
  Ancestry and Progentry of Captain James Blount - Immigrant, by Robert F. Pfafman, p E-31.
  
  === Ingelram ===
  His name is translated to "Ingelram II Of Flanders" in English.
  
  === Sources: RC 235; AF. RC: Count, c851. AF ===
  Sources: RC 235; AF. RC: Count, c851. AF calls him Engleran.
  
  === Governor of Flanders 802 -824 ===
  Governor of Flanders 802 -824
  
  Ancestry and Progentry of Captain James Blount - Immigrant, by Robert F. Pfafman, p E-31.
  
  === Ancestral File Number: GS4N-SF ===
  Ancestral File Number: GS4N-SF
  
  === Governor of Flanders 802 -824 Ancestry ===
  Governor of Flanders 802 -824 Ancestry and Progentry of Captain James Blount - Immigrant , by Robert F. Pfafman, p E-31.
  
  === Governor of Flanders 802 -824 Ancestry a ===
  Governor of Flanders 802 -824 Ancestry and Progentry of Captain James Blount - Immigrant, by Robert F.Pfafman, p E-31.
  
  === BIRTH: LDS Ancestor file - Doc. AFN00031 ===
  BIRTH: LDS Ancestor file - Doc. AFN000311 Birth: About 780; Of,Flander,Nord Dept.,France
  
  === !Gov of Flanders 802.hrb !Gov of Flander ===
  !Gov of Flanders 802.hrb !Gov of Flanders 802.hrb
  
  === !WFT, Vol 5, Tree # 1350. ===
  !WFT, Vol 5, Tree # 1350.
  
  === OCCUPATION: Count of Flanders ===
  OCCUPATION: Count of Flanders
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 JAN 1998.

1. Audacri de Flandre, b. 810 in Flanders, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France     d. 864 in Harelbeke, Flandre occidentale, Belgique

1. Title: Millennium File
   Publication: Name: http://search.ancestry.com/collections/7249/records/10845922;
   
2. Title: Ancestry Family Trees
   Author: Ancestry Family Tree
   
3. Title: Ingelram False Ancestor of Baldwin I - Fasg.org
   Publication: Name: https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/baldw001.htm;
   Note: The Legendary Ancestors of Baldwin of Flanders No contemporary source gives the parentage of Baldwin I of Flanders. However, by the the late thirteenth century, an elaborate story had developed which provided Baldwin with three generations of ancestry back to a certain Lidéric, who was then said to be the first "forester" of Flanders, followed in the same position by his son Ingelram, grandson Audacer, and great-grandson Baldwin, who then became the first count of Flanders. Widely accepted in earlier times, these legends have been correctly rejected by modern scholarship. Fortunately, the surviving rescensions of the genealogies of the counts of Flanders allow us to see some of the stages by which this legendary scenario developed, and even though a careful examination of these shows us that Ingelram and probably also Lidéric were real individuals, the alleged descent of Baldwin I from them must be discarded. Much of the early development of the legend appears in the various works edited under the collective title of Genealogiae Comitum Flandriae [MGH SS 9: 302-336, here abbreviated Gen. Com. Fland.], a collection of nine items (identified here by Roman numerals I-IX) written by various authors over a period of several hundred years, having in common that they involve the genealogy or succession of the counts of Flanders. The two earliest parts, dating from the tenth century, say nothing about the parentage of Baldwin I [I. Witger, Genealogia Arnulfi comitis (pp. 302-4, also an important source for later Carolingian genealogy); II. De Arnulfo comite (p. 304)]. However, Witger was emphasizing the Carolingian ancestry of count Arnulf I, and De Arnulfo comite was concerned only with certain close relatives of Arnulf I, so the fact that they do not mention the parentage of Baldwin I does not mean that they did not know it. The earliest source giving Baldwin's supposed genealogy back to Lidéric is Genealogia comitum Flandriae Bertiniana [Gen. Com. Fland. III, pp. 305-8], which states that Lidricus, count of Harlebeck, was father of Ingelrannus, who was father of Audacrus, who was father of Balduinus Ferreus ["Lidricus Harlebeccensis comes genuit Ingelrannum. Ingelrannus genuit Audacrum. Audacer genuit Balduinum Ferreum, qui duxit filiam Karoli Calvi nomine Iudith." MGH SS 9: 305]. In his introduction to this work, Bethmann dates this version to the reign of count Robert II (1093-1111) [MGH SS 9: 305], but the existence of two different versions which diverge after Baldwin V suggests an earlier version composed under Baldwin V or Baldwin VI [see MGH SS 9: 306]. As discussed in more detail below, later versions of Gen. Com. Fland. added major elaborations to this account. However, Genealogia comitum Flandriae Bertiniana is not the earliest source to mention Lidéric. That honor goes to Annales Blandinienses, which, under the year 836, in an eleventh century hand, states that "Lidricus comes obiit", followed by "et Arlabeka sepelitur" added in a twelfth century hand [Grierson (1937a), 11; Annales Blandinienses has also been edited by Ludwig Bethmann in MGH SS 5: 20-34, but the fact that "et Arlabeka sepelitur" was in a later hand is not indicated]. One of the sources used by the Annales Blandinienses as we have them today was an earlier version of the same annals from the middle of the tenth century, called the tenth century Annales Blandinienses by Grierson (1937a), which were also used as a source by Annales Elmarenses, Annales Formosolenses, and Annales Elnonenses. These annals are also edited in Grierson (1937a). Annales Elmarenses were first edited by Grierson, while Monumenta Germaniae Historica contains editions of Annales Formosolenses by Bethmann [MGH SS 5: 34-6] and of Annales Elnonenses by Pertz [MGH SS 5: 10-20, with the entries in one twelfth century hand separated and edited as Annales Elnonenses minores (pp.17-20), and the remaining annals edited as Annales Elnonenses maiores (pp. 11-17)]. The Annales Blandinienses also mention Ingelram and Audacer, but with an important difference: although the affiliation of Audacer as father of Baldwin is given, no genealogical affiliations are given for Lidéric or Ingelram. The Chronicon Vedastinum, discussed in more detail under Audacer below, is another relatively early source which gives the name of Baldwin's father without showing any knowledge of his alleged earlier ancestors. This indicates an earlier tradition in which the name of the father of Baldwin I was regarded as known, but in which there is no evidence that any earlier generations in the genealogy were known. From this, along with the more detailed individual discussions for Lidéric, Ingelram, and Audacer which appear below, two major points emerge: No later than the middle of the eleventh century (and probably as early as the tenth), there were local annalists who believed that Baldwin's father was named Audacer/Odoacer, but who did not indicate any significant details about the latter, or any knowledge of genealogical affiliations for Lidéric or Ingelram. The chronology indicated for Lidéric and Ingelram (whose career overlaps ignificantly with that of Baldwin I), as shown by these early sources, does not fit well with the claim that they were respectively great-grandfather and grandfather of Baldwin I of Flanders. The natural conclusion is that the name of the father of Baldwin I belongs to an earlier level of the tradition, while the alleged affiliation of Lidéric and Ingelram to Audacer and Baldwin is a later invention, made when the genealogists were seeking to extend the ancestry beyond Baldwin's father, and found two usable names for that purpose in their sources. Although not supported by contemporary evidence, the name of Baldwin's father can be accepted as probable, but the genealogical links to Ingelram and Lidéric need to be rejected as later inventions, even though we can probably accept Lidéric's existence (as we certainly can for Ingelram). Falsely attributed grandfather (or father): Ingelram, living 875, evidently d. before 883, count, before 853-870×5, chamberlain of king Charles the Bald, m. Friderada, who m. (2) Bernarius, d. 883; and m. (3) Hugues, son of king Lothair II. For Ingelram, the above entry under 836 in Annales Elmarenses which states (of Lidéric) that "Cui successit filius eius Ingelramnus" can be attributed as a late addition, as the Annales Elmarenses were composed at a time when the legendary genealogy of Baldwin of Flanders was already current. This leaves us with two entries from Annales Blandinienses which mention Ingelram. 856. "Herebertus tradidit sancto Petro res suas in Berenga, sub [Inghelranno] abbate vel comite." [Ann. Bland., Grierson (1937a), 12; name in brackets added in a fourteenth century hand over an erasure] 875. "Hludowicus, suadente Ingelranno abbate, regnum Karoli vastat." [Ann. Bland., Grierson (1937a), 13] Since the name is added in a late hand, the 856 entry has no early authority. Except for the word "abbate", the 875 entry agrees with a similar (but more detailed) entry in Annales Bertiniani (quoted below), showing clearly that Ingelram can be identified with the man of that name who was chamberlain of king Charles the Bald. Count Engilramnus is indicated as being count somewhere in the third missicatum in a capitulary of king Charles the Bald in November 853 ["Imino episcopus, Adelardus abba, Waltcaudus, Odelricus, missi in Noviomiso, Vermendiso, Adertiso, Curtriciso, Flandra, comitatibus Engilramni, et in comitatibus Waltcaudi." MGH Leg. 1: 426; see below for a more detailed discussion]. He appears also in a capitulary of Charles the Bald on 21 March 858 [MGH Leg. 1: 457], and when Charles made a pact with his brother Louis (Ludwig) "the German" in 864, he was named (along with Hincmar of Reims) as a guarantor on the behalf of king Charles [Ann. Fuld. 62]. In 868, he was sent with gifts to king Salomon of Brittany [Ann. Bert. 97], and he acted as a guarantor again in 870 [capitulary of a meeting of Charles and Louis, 6 March 870, MGH Leg. 1: 516]. In 875, having been deprived of his honors due to the influence of queen Richilde, he persuaded Louis to devastate the kingdom of Charles ["Hludovicus vero, persuadente Engilramno, quondam Caroli regis camerario et domestico, suasione Richildis reginae ab honoribus deiecto et a sua familiaritate abiecto, cum hoste et filio aequivico suo Hludowico usque ad Attiniacum venit. Ad quem obsistendum primores regni Karoli, iubente Richilde regina, sacramento se confirmaverunt. Quod non adtenderunt, sed ex sua parte regnum Karoli pessumdantes, hostili more devastaverunt." Ann. Bert. 127; Ann. Bland. (quoted above)]. The information on Ingelram's wife and child comes from Regino's chronicle for the year 883, which states that in that year, Hugues (son of king Lothair II) ordered a certain noble named Bernarius to be killed, and then married his widow. Regino also states that before being united to Bernarius, she had been married to the potens vir Ingelram, by whom they had a daughter who was later married to count Ricuin ["Hoc etiam tempore idem Hugo [son of Lothair II] Wicbertum comitem, qui ab ineunte aetate sibi faverat, interfecit; paucis dehinc interpositis diebus, Bernarium, nobilem virum sibique fidelissimum, dolo trucidari iussit, pulchritudine illius captus uxoris, quam absque momento sibi in matrimonium iungit. Vocabatur autem mulier Friderada, quae antequam Bernario sociaretur, copulata fuerat Engilramno potenti viro, ex quo filiam peperit, quam postmodum Richwinus comes in coniugium accepit, quam etiam propter stuprum commissum idem comes decollari iussit." Regino, s.a. 883, MGH SS 1: 594; for more on count Ricuin, see Ricuin's page]. Although the Ingelram of this record is not explicitly identified with the former chamberlain of Charles the Bald, the description of potens vir suggests this identification.