Chungvi 1st King of the 1st Xiongnu Dynasty

• Preferred Name: Chungvi 1st King of the 1st Xiongnu Dynasty^{[1] [2] [3] [4]}
  
• Gender: M
  
• Death: AFT 1800 BC with note: FabPedigree: Chungvi probably after 1800 BC
  
• FSID: G7J8-6PS
  

1. Balakh - Budli Buken Boken ,    

1. Title: Wikiwand: Xiongnu
   Author: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   Publication: Name: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Xiongnu#:~:text=Chinese%20sources%20report%20that%20Modu,area%20known%20later%20as%20Mongolia.;
   Note: The Xiongnu [ɕjʊ́ŋ.nǔ] (Chinese: 匈奴; Wade–Giles: "Hsiung-nu") were a tribal confederation of nomadic peoples who, according to ancient Chinese sources, inhabited the eastern Eurasian Steppe from the 3rd century BC to the late 1st century AD. Chinese sources report that Modu Chanyu, the supreme leader after 209 BC, founded the Xiongnu Empire. After their previous rivals, the Yuezhi, migrated into Central Asia during the 2nd century BC, the Xiongnu became a dominant power on the steppes of north-east Central Asia, centered on an area known later as Mongolia. The Xiongnu were also active in areas now part of Siberia, Inner Mongolia, Gansu and Xinjiang. Their relations with adjacent Chinese dynasties to the south-east were complex, with repeated periods of conflict and intrigue, alternating with exchanges of tribute, trade, and marriage treaties (heqin). During the Sixteen Kingdoms era, they were also known as one of the Five Barbarians who took part in an uprising against Chinese rule known as the Uprising of the Five Barbarians. After their previous rivals, the Yuezhi, migrated into Central Asia during the 2nd century BC, the Xiongnu became a dominant power on the steppes of north-east Central Asia, centered on an area known later as Mongolia. The Xiongnu were also active in areas now part of Siberia, Inner Mongolia, Gansu and Xinjiang. Their relations with adjacent Chinese dynasties to the south-east were complex, with repeated periods of conflict and intrigue, alternating with exchanges of tribute, trade, and marriage treaties (heqin). During the Sixteen Kingdoms era, they were also known as one of the Five Barbarians who took part in an uprising against Chinese rule known as the Uprising of the Five Barbarians. Attempts to identify the Xiongnu with later groups of the western Eurasian Steppe remain controversial. Scythians and Sarmatians were concurrently to the west. The identity of the ethnic core of Xiongnu has been a subject of varied hypotheses, because only a few words, mainly titles and personal names, were preserved in the Chinese sources. The name "Xiongnu" may be cognate with that of the Huns or the "Huna," although this is disputed. Other linguistic links – all of them also controversial – proposed by scholars include Iranian, Mongolic, Turkic, Uralic, Yeniseian, Tibeto-Burman or multi-ethnic. History See also: Timeline of the Xiongnu Early history An early reference to the Xiongnu was by the Han dynasty historian Sima Qian who wrote about the Xiongnu in the "Records of the Grand Historian" (c. 100 BC). The ancestor of Xiongnu was a descendent of the rulers of Xia dynasty by the name of Chunwei. It also draws a distinct line between the settled Huaxia people (Chinese) to the pastoral nomads (Xiongnu), characterizing it as two polar groups in the sense of a civilization versus an uncivilized society: the Hua–Yi distinction. Pre-Han sources often classify the Xiongnu as a Hu people, which was a blanket term for nomadic people; it only became an ethnonym for the Xiongnu during the Han. Ancient China often came in contact with the Xianyun and the Xirong nomadic peoples. In later Chinese historiography, some groups of these peoples were believed to be the possible progenitors of the Xiongnu people. These nomadic people often had repeated military confrontations with the Shang and especially the Zhou, who often conquered and enslaved the nomads in an expansion drift. During the Warring States period, the armies from the Qin, Zhao, and Yan states were encroaching and conquering various nomadic territories that were inhabited by the Xiongnu and other Hu peoples. Sinologist Edwin Pulleyblank argued that the Xiongnu were part of a Xirong group called Yiqu, who had lived in Shaanbei and had been influenced by China for centuries, before they were driven out by the Qin dynasty. Qin's campaign against the Xiongnu expanded Qin's territory at the expense of the Xiongnu. after the unification of Qin dynasty, Xiongnu was a threat to the northern board of Qin. They were like to attack Qin dynasty when they suffered natural disasters. In 215 BC, Qin Shi Huang sent General Meng Tian to conquer the Xiongnu and drive them from the Ordos Loop, which he did later that year. After the catastrophic defeat at the hands of Meng Tian, the Xiongnu leader Touman was forced to flee far into the Mongolian Plateau. The Qin empire became a threat to the Xiongnu, which ultimately led to the reorganization of the many tribes into a confederacy. State formation In 209 BC, three years before the founding of Han China, the Xiongnu were brought together in a powerful confederation under a new chanyu, Modu Chanyu. This new political unity transformed them into a more formidable state by enabling the formation of larger armies and the ability to exercise better strategic coordination. The Xiongnu adopted many of the Chinese agriculture techniques such as slaves for heavy labor, wore silk like the Chinese, and lived in Chinese-style homes. The reason for creating the confederation remains unclear. Suggestions include the need for a stronger state to deal with the Qin unification of China that resulted in a loss of the Ordos region at the hands of Meng Tian or the political crisis that overtook the Xiongnu in 215 BC when Qin armies evicted them from their pastures on the Yellow River. After forging internal unity, Modu Chanyu expanded the empire on all sides. To the north he conquered a number of nomadic peoples, including the Dingling of southern Siberia. He crushed the power of the Donghu people of eastern Mongolia and Manchuria as well as the Yuezhi in the Hexi Corridor of Gansu, where his son, Jizhu, made a skull cup out of the Yuezhi king. Modu also reoccupied all the lands previously taken by the Qin general Meng Tian. Under Modu's leadership, the Xiongnu threatened the Han dynasty, almost causing Emperor Gaozu, the first Han emperor, to lose his throne in 200 BC. By the time of Modu's death in 174 BC, the Xiongnu had driven the Yuezhi from the Hexi Corridor, killing the Yuezhi king in the process and asserting their presence in the Western Regions. The Xiongnu were recognized as the most prominent of the nomads bordering the Chinese Han empire and during early relations between the Xiongnu and the Han, the former held the balance of power. According to the "Book of Han," later quoted in Duan Chengshi's ninth-century "Miscellaneous Morsels from Youyang": "Also, according to the Han shu, Wang Wu (王烏) and others were sent as envoys to pay a visit to the Xiongnu. According to the customs of the Xiongnu, if the Han envoys did not remove their tallies of authority, and if they did not allow their faces to be tattooed, they could not gain entrance into the yurts. Wang Wu and his company removed their tallies, submitted to tattoo, and thus gained entry. The Shanyu looked upon them very highly." Xiongnu hierarchy See also: Chanyu After Modu, later leaders formed a dualistic system of political organisation with the left and right branches of the Xiongnu divided on a regional basis. The chanyu or shanyu, a ruler equivalent to the Emperor of China, exercised direct authority over the central territory. Longcheng (蘢城) became the annual meeting place and served as the Xiongnu capital. The ruler of the Xiongnu was called the Chanyu. Under him were the Tuqi Kings. The Tuqi King of the Left was normally the heir presumptive. Next lower in the hierarchy came more officials in pairs of left and right: the guli, the army commanders, the great governors, the danghu and the gudu. Beneath them came the commanders of detachments of one thousand, of one hundred, and of ten men. This nation of nomads, a people on the march, was organized like an army. Yap, apparently describing the early period, places the Chanyu's main camp north of Shanxi with the Tuqi King of the Left holding the area north of Beijing and the Tuqi King of the Right holding the Ordos Loop area as far as Gansu. Grousset, probably describing the situation after the Xiongnu had been driven north, places the Chanyu on the upper Orkhon River near where Genghis Khan would later establish his capital of Karakorum. The Tuqi King of the Left lived in the east, probably on the high Kherlen River. The Tuqi King of the Right lived in the west, perhaps near present-day Uliastai in the Khangai Mountains. Marriage diplomacy with Han China Main article: heqin In the winter of 200 BC, following a Xiongnu siege of Taiyuan, Emperor Gaozu of Han personally led a military campaign against Modu Chanyu. At the Battle of Baideng, he was ambushed reputedly by Xiongnu cavalry. The emperor was cut off from supplies and reinforcements for seven days, only narrowly escaping capture. The Han sent princesses to marry Xiongnu leaders in their efforts to stop the border raids. Along with arranged marriages, the Han sent gifts to bribe the Xiongnu to stop attacking. After the defeat at Pingcheng in 200 BC, the Han emperor abandoned a military solution to the Xiongnu threat. Instead, in 198 BC , the courtier Liu Jing [zh] was dispatched for negotiations. The peace settlement eventually reached between the parties included a Han princess given in marriage to the "chanyu" (called "heqin") (Chinese: 和親; lit.: "harmonious kinship"); periodic gifts to the Xiongnu of silk, distilled beverages and rice; equal status between the states; and the Great Wall as mutual border. This first treaty set the pattern for relations between the Han and the Xiongnu for sixty years. Up to 135 BC, the treaty was renewed nine times, each time with an increase in the "gifts" to the Xiongnu Empire. In 192 BC, Modun even asked for the hand of Emperor Gaozu of Han widow Empress Lü Zhi. His son and successor, the energetic Jiyu, known as the Laoshang Chanyu, continued his father's expansionist policies. Laoshang succeeded in negotiating with Emperor Wen terms for the maintenance of a large scale government sponsored market syste...
   
2. Title: Face Music - History: Horsemen – Nomads
   Author: Face Music – FM Suisse, http://www.face-music.ch/index.html
   Publication: Name: http://www.face-music.ch/nomads/hsiung_nu_en.html;
   Note: Alans Assyrians Avars – Oghors Cimmerians – Gimir –Gimirri Dzungars – Ölöts and Olöts Gök-Turks - Kök-Turks - Old Turks and Turkestan Huns Khazars Kirghiz Manchu Oghuz Oirats Osetians – Osetia Parthians - Persians Proto-Bulgars – Volga-Bulgarsia Volga Bulgaria – Volga-Kama Bolghar Sarmats – Sauromats Sassanids Seljuk – Seljuq people Scythians – Scyths Uyghurs – Uighurs Tanguts Thracians Urartu – Armenia Xiongnu Xiongnu - 3rd century BC to 4th century AC - map sketch: Hsiung-nu Empire Hsiung-nu Migration Hsiung-nu Ruan Ruan (Juan Juan Empire) Xianbei Yuezhi-Migration The Xiongnu established two dynasties (centers of power) in their steppe territory. These lasted, however, only for a rather short period of time, but were quite important for the later history of China. The first dynasty was the Early Zhou Dynasty and lasted from 304 BC to 34 AD. The second one was the Late Zhou Dynasty that lasted from 52 to 329 AD. Both dynasties were organized as nomads and always had a rather close relation with the then-China. Among the tribes united, there supposedly was a tribe called Ashina ("Ashina" – name of then leading clan of the steppe nomads) or Turk (Turkut). They were known among the Chinese as armorers. Later on, the tribe of Turk (Turkut) became a tribal federation, called Xianbei, which – together with the Donghu (Eastern Hu) - controlled the Mongolian-Manchurian frontier territory. They were mentioned ifirst in Chinese chronicles in the 5th century AD. The Xianbei then were subdued by the To'pa dynasty of the Turkic Tabgach (Tuoba – Tang Dynasty), who also had conquered some of the southern Hu tribes. These southern Hu today are considered a Turkic tribe. The To'pa dynasty controlled the areas that later became known as the region of Xingjiang. Xiongnu is also a Chinese name for the tribal federation with equestrian nomads that controlled large areas of Central Asia between the 3rd century BC and the 4th century AD, mainly through their mounted archery. They founded the first steppe empire in history, as a kind of countermeasure to China's policy of conquest, by means of their wagon troops and infantry. They controlled areas of today's Outer Mongolia, of the western Gool Mod region (river in the Mongolian Altai) and the northern Noyon Uul (Noin Ula – due to Kurgan foundings also at the Selenge River). Apart from the Chinese, their main rivals were nomadic tribes such as the Yüe-tschi (have to be considered as Scythians). They were an Indo-European and Indo-Germanic group that settled in the province Gansu of today's China as far as the Tarim Basin. They were considered mercenaries of the Chinese and were identical with the Tocharians (These also belong to the Indo-Germanic language family). The Xiongnu were divided into several tribes upon their defeat against the Chinese and neighboring tribes, and as a result pushed, at least in part, farther west. In Chinese chronicles they were mentioned for the very first time in the year 230 BC, although it may be assumed that the Chinese already knew them much earlier. They influenced Chinese warfare, which was developing during the Warring States Period. The mobility of these equestrian troops led to the construction of the first big wall (continuous defensive fortification) under Emperor Qin Shi Huangdi (Prince Zhao Zheng), the founder of the Qin Dynasty (221-207 BC). The Turkic and Mongol peoples claim to be descendants of these tribes. In Europe the Huns were seen as their ancestors. But according to the latest research, the Huns and the Xiongnu no longer are considered identical people – perhaps based on the fact that the early nomadic tribes were tribal federations, a union of different ethnical and cultural groups, which were organized, separated and re-organized in rudimentary political systems according to then-prevailing situations and conditions. On the basis of the latest research, Xiongnu and the Huns now are considered to have originiated in today's Mongolia and the neighboring Altai and Sajan Mountains. However, it remains unclear whether the tribes that were called Huns by the Europeans really were an "extension" of these tribes. In general the Chinese denomination "Xiongnu" was used only for Mao-tun's state and refers to the eastern groups that showed more Old Turkic and Mongolian physical characteristics (the shape of eyes, etc.). The denomination "Huns" refers to the groups of the Xiongnu who had been pushed towards the west and who were more assimilated with the Indo-Germanic groups. The name was mainly used in Europe in association with Attila. The Xiongnu are, just as the Huns, a product of assimilation of different Altai and Sajan tribes. They assimilated over several centuries with some Indo-Germanic groups (Saka "Scythians," Sarmatians, Alans), on the one side, and Mongoloid groups from the Taiga as well as cattle breeders expelled from the Chinese frontier areas on the other one. The Chieh, one of the 19 tribes of the Xiongnu federation, were well known, for example, for their long noses and full beards (349 BC). In the 8th century BC, horse harnesses already used in the Altai area; however, no housing settlements were found. These "barbers" were known among the Chinese, in chronological order: Jung, Ti and Hui, or Hiu-yun. The Ti, for example, are described as a warring infantry in two crusades (714 and 541 AD). The Xiongnu who were, according to latest traditions, a branch of the tribes mentioned above, are to be considered mainly as equestrian nomads. But some of them, however, are described as having settled down; for instance, those who had settled down in Transbaikalia, a region in the area of Lake Baikal). Chungvi Khan, who was first mentioned in 1800 BC, is considered the legendary progenitor of the Xiongnu, the Turkic as well as the Huns. They were first mentioned in 1766 BC in the scriptures of the Chinese Xia Dynasty, which told that Kia, the 17th member of this dynasty, was disempowered. According to the records, Kia's son Sunni founded, with about 500 other tribe members, an individual tribe that later was called the Hui. Sunni probably established the important Tuyku clan, of which all rulers of the Xiongnu and Huns later claimed to be descendants. He also was related closely to the Ashina-Chuni Clan, which is the progenitor of all rulers of the Göktürks. In the 3rd century BC, the Xiongnu founded an empire under Tu-men and his son Mao-tun (209 to 174 BC) that introduced elements of a former state and threatened the Han Chinese. In some areas, uniform laws and punishments were introduced. Furthermore, Mao-tun established a military entourage ("Ordu") that might quickly and readily be used along with a strong central administration that included several hierarchic steps. This administrative sytem was enlarged finally under Mao-tun's son Ki-ok (Laosheng, ruled 174-161 BC). The latter also introduced a kind of national tax. The rulers hence belonged to the Suylyanti Clan, a sub-clan of the Tuyku, and they developed the Old Turkic traditions that were adopted by all subsequent steppe tribes for their "nomadic empires." In the period between 350 BC and 290 BC, fortifications at the northern frontiers with the Chinese Khanates were established, an antecedent of the Great Wall (15th/16th century AD in the Ming Dynasty). The Zhou King Wu-ling (325 BC–298 BC), for example, had his troops trained in the art of riding and archery and also adopted his enemies' clothes. In the 26th year of his rule, he wiped out the forest of Xiongnu (settled nomads). The first historic document found dates back to 318 BC: a border treaty signed by the Chinese and the Xiongnu. The great Chinese historian, Sima Qian († 85 BC) was the most important one describing the Xiongnu in greater detail. Under Ki-ok's rule, the Xiongnu threatened China's capital Chan in 166 BC. About 160 BC, they attacked their arch-enemies, the Yüe-tschi, and totally and utterly defeated them. In the course of this crusade, Ki-ok was killed. Expelling the Yüe-tschi from the province Gansu of today's China, resulted in a big migration movement. The Yüe-tschi settled in Bactria, where also the Saka (part of the Scythians) decided to settle down. Their exodus resulted in the destruction of the last Greek empire in Bactria (that of Heliocles) and the subsequent conquest of parts of north India by the Saka. From this point on, the Xiongnu were the absolute power in Mongolia and probably in the entire area of Eastern Turkestan, resulting in the entire area being much more acknowledged by the Chinese. Turkestan – Land of the Turks – is a dry mountain region in Central Asia and extends from the Caspian Sea in the west towards the Desert Gobi in the east. Originally it was settled by Iranian tribes and known among them as Turan ("Turan Plain" or "Turan Depression"). Between the 13th and the 16th century the region was controlled by the Mongolians and known in Europe as "Great Tartary." Today the name "Turkestan" frequently is substituted for the denominations "home of the Turks" or "Turkic people." Historically these designations are wrong, however, as the proper original "home" of the Turkic people was situated farther east in today's Mongolia. Today Turkestan is populated by different ethnicites, with the Turkish-speaking people forming a majority, including Turkmen people, Uyghurs, Usbeks, Karakalpaks, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tatars, Azerbaijanis, Karaim, Crimean Turks, Meskethian Turks and Turkish people, as well as the old established Iranian people, such as the Tajik people, the Persians, and the Afghans. After repeated skirmishes, Han China under Emperor Wu-ti defeated the Xiongnu and pushed them back to their proper home area. In 119 BC, they were defeated by Mao-tun's grandson Yizhixie (126 BC–114 BC) at the later Urga ("Örgöö," today: Ulaanbaatar) in Mongolia, as the Chanyu leader did not believe that the Chinese under general Huo Qubing were able to cross the Gob...
   
3. Title: FabPedigree: Chungvi
   Publication: Name: https://fabpedigree.com/s064/f694832.htm;
   Note: The PEDIGREE of Chungvi 1st King of the 1st XIONGNU Dynasty Born: ? Died: prob. after 1800 BC Poss. HM George I's Ancestor. Poss. HRE Ferdinand I's Ancestor. Poss. Agnes Harris's Ancestor. Wife/Partner: ? Child: (NN) ... (NN) __________ __________ _________ _________ _________ ______ ______ _____ / -- Hu `Son of Heaven' / -- (NN) ... (NN) / | ( some missing generations) - Chungvi \ \ -- ? His 3(+)-Great Grandchild: Batur Tengriqut (2nd King) of HUNS His (poss.) 8(+)-Great Grandchild: Shuluy Qanghuy (12th King) of HUNS
   
4. Title: Wikiwand: Talk:Xiongnu/Archive 1
   Author: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This is an archive of past discussions.
   Publication: Name: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Talk:Xiongnu/Archive_1;
   Note: Though I am no historian, but I really question the explanation of 奴 in this article. The term 奴 simply means slaves. Just like in Chinese Ming history, 倭寇 refers to the Japanese thieves, but no one would try to explain the term 寇 as a some kind of tribes. I may be wrong, but I am not convinced by this article either. Can some scholars confirm this? Kowloonese 22:13, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC) Simple, the meaning and use of words and phrases evolve and change over time. For example, in the English language, the word 'awesome' means 'awe-inspiring' and was used in a more serious fashion e.g. Awesome God. Nowadays, every second thing is awesome. another common example is the world 'gay'. even though it still means happy, this meaning is becoming more and more archaic and its entirely possible that gay will be used exclusively to mean a male homosexual in the distant future. considering that thousands of years have passed since the word 'Nu' was first used to describe these people, it is not too far a stretch to see that Nu may have had another meaning or concurrent meaning back then. I have the same question in mind too!wshun 22:25, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC) There is no attempt to translate Nu (奴) as tribes, rather the author has attempted to explain that Xiongnu means the slaves of the ferocious ones and that these slaves actually consisted of many different peoples. It is nonetheless quite confusing and the article does need re-working. Anyone who has time to phrase it better should give the re-working a shot. Also some of the Characters need to have Pinyin or Wade Giles transliterations. Kaz —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zestauferov (talk • contribs) 07:19, 18 September 2003 Important update to the DNA and racial identity of Xiongnu, please click the link below and add this scientific findings to wiki, thank you http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.shtml UPDATE SEPT, 2006*** —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.90.43.11 (talk • contribs) 04:33, 21 September 2006 This page looks a little mess. :o --Gboy 06:18, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC) It looks too daunting to tidy up but taking away the Korean & adding wg or py would be a start —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zestauferov (talk • contribs) 07:01, 1 October 2003 How would Uighurs, Göktürks, Jurchens and Khitans all come under the suzerainty of the Xiongnu? This page needs a serious rework. kt2 06:32, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC) The for-runners of those peoples are obviously meant but this needs clearer expression. At least it is clear that the Nu tribes under the Xiong were actually a pretty mixed-up group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zestauferov (talk • contribs) 07:01, 1 October 2003 One explanation about the origin of the word Nu (奴), is that Nu was once the name of the tribe and later it became synonymous with "slave". --Kvasir 09:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) Hiung was the name of the Hun military elite (become later known as white Huns without the "slave" tribes), and -Nu means the controlled tribes under their rule. This confusion in their name have lead later the unclear ethnic definition of the European Hun people (European or Mongoloid). So that can be say that Hiungnu were Hunnic and Mongol too. Later, in the time of Genghis Khan the Mongols were the ruler class, and the remnanst of east white Huns (the later Uyghurs) were in their army. --Dzsoker 12:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC) Translations It would make this unreadable entry a bit more accessible if the Chinese could be translated. And transiaxartesia ('beyond the something-or-other') isn't universally recognizable geography.Wetman 07:43, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC) Yes if anyone knows which English terms correspond to the Chinese names or could at least give a correct Pinyin transliteration (I can only give them from Korean) alongside the characters it would be useful. I discovered the full geographical description of Transiaxartesia was deleted in December by someone who thought it was something to do with role-playing. I don't remember much about what it said, but do know that it was the land beyond the Jaxartes river. If the person who wrote that entry (or the one who deleted it) could put the info back under the renamed link it would be useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zestauferov (talk • contribs) 08:00, 6 January 2004 Rewrite This article seems to be based on the contention that the Xiongnu were synonomous with the Huns. This theory has been discredited in the academic world for some time. It keeps referring to the "Xion" and their "nu" - which seems very far-fetched. The basis for the Chinese term "Xiongnu" is still contentious and should not be treated as fact. The article then moves onto a discussion of "Hu", sometimes not directly related to the Xiongnu. I'm going to attempt a rewrite. --Yu Ninjie 04:29, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) Thank you very much! Boy, that article needs it! BTW, "Xion" is a typo, isn't it? (I'm a bit unsure because there are non-Han pronunciations like 休麻 Xoima.) — Sebastian 05:31, 2005 Mar 25 (UTC) I'm not sure whether if it's typo. Maybe the writer meant "Xiong"? --Yu Ninjie 06:19, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) Yes, I think so. — Sebastian 06:55, 2005 Mar 25 (UTC) One should note that the word 匈 is pronounced /hUN/ in Cantonese, a language reputably older than Mandarin. It's reasonable that this sound is preserved in an older language. So yes, I do see a connection between the Xiong-nus and the Huns. Whether they were they same people or that the chinese confused them to be the same that's another debate. --Kvasir 09:01, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) Yes, in old Chinese, "Xiong" was pronounced like "Hong". The Character itself is not a depiction of scarred faces, rather it is the phonetic part of the character. 胸 (chest), 凶 bad luck, and 汹 (??) also have this phonetic part. "Nu" may or may not be part of the name, and may or may not be a disparaging term used for them. The Xiongnu are part of the 5 Hu. --Xiaogoudelaohu (talk) 21:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC) Pronounciations of Xiongnu names All Xiongnu names and terms are Chinese transliterations. Often the characters representing Xiongnu names have pronounciations quite different to their modern pronounciations. An example is Modun (冒頓), the great unifier of the Xiongnu tribes. The annotated notes to the Shiji says that the first character of his name should be pronounced "mo" (p. 2889 of the Zhonghua Shuju edition), and not "mao" as is the modern usage. Similarly, the Xiongnu term for chief consort (閼氏) is noted to be pronounced "yanzhi" instead of Yanshi. So even when an error of transliteration from Chinese to English on my part seems obvious, please don't change it unless you've consulted the relevant historical source. --Yu Ninjie 06:40, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) Work done by E.G. Pulleyblank shows the original pronounciation of the characters the Chinese used to write the name of the Xiongnu would've been pronounced more like flong-nakh contemporaneously based upon ancient pronouncing dictionaries the Chinese wrote. The flong part is related to the Chinese word for dragon. The nakh part is theorized to be a foreign word for whislting arrow. The proto-Turks supposedly copied the governmental structure and words of the arrow=tribe symbol from the Yeneseians to form the well-known hun/oghur/oghuz names. If you can get it , read "Mounted Archer's: The Beginnings of Central Asian History" by Laszlo Torday, who collected the latest research on the subject and presented it in summary form. Later I'll have to dig out the exact reference and explanation for it for the article. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 16:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC) From E.G. Pulleyblank, 'The Consonantal System of Old Chinese', Asia Minor 5 (1962), Pulleyblank gives the following old pronounciations for Xiongnu. Old (Han) Chinese: *flong-nahh Middle Chinese: hion-nou Where /i/ is an auxiliary vowel and /-hh/ is a breathy, laryngeal h-sound. Regarding the dragon, I was mistaken. What was really meant is that the old pronounciation of the graphs used in the name of the Shanyu's clan and capital (lung (dragon) and luan (horns)) was originally similar to *flong. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 23:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC) I think we should change things like "Maodun" into "Modu". Those names are NOT historical mysteries: you can find the explanations about their pronunciations in a modern Chinese dictionary. See http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%86%92%E9%A1%BF%E5%8D%95%E4%BA%8E -- Callofktulu 03:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC) liu song "After the fall of the Western Jin in 317, the southern Xiongnu succeeded in establishing the first alien dynasty in Chinese history, known to history as the Liu Song (劉宋)." This is not correct, Liu Yu (劉裕), the founder of Liu Song, is not of Xiongnu origin. He is somewhat related to the royal family of Han dynasty, according to Chinese history.--Guangyiwang 00:28, 20 May 2005 (UTC) Xiongnu/Han I think the Xiongnu that Chinese referred are the Huns. The ancient chinese pronunciation was Hyun and nu as one of the suffixes that the Chinese used to name whom they considered to be barbaric. It's noteworthy that the Europeans described Attila as having a flat nose. We all know that the Huns are a mixed race, in fact in Han dynasty, a Chinese would recognized a Hun even dressed in Chinese manner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.199.83.207 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 7 August 2005 There is in fact a dispute on this. See the article on Huns about this. --Nlu 21:58, 7 August 2005 (UTC) Mixed, perhaps, but not European/Asian. Look at any Northern Asian around Mongolia and you'll find they do often have wavy/curly and even lighter hair, sometimes hazel or blue eyes, taller, bigger, but by no means look European. Many Chinese in northern provinces look very different than Chinese from southern provinces, and you can tell immediately they are from the North, or even NW, NE, etc. --Xiaogoudelaohu (talk) 22:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC) Hunuk "훈육은 夏나라 때 중국의 북방에 살던 만족으로서 漢나라 때는 흉노라고 하였음