Elissende

• Preferred Name: Elissende ^{[1] [2] [3]}
  
• Gender: F
  
• Birth: 1049 in of Artois, France at LATI: N0.5 LONG: E0.5
  
• FSID: LZKK-CTR
  
• Death: 1128 in France
  
• Notes:

  === Non-standard gedcom data: 1 HEAL G5QN- ===
  Non-standard gedcom data: 1 HEAL G5QN-9D
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 JAN 1998.
  
  === BIRTH-MARRIAGE: LDS Ancestor file - Doc. ===
  BIRTH-MARRIAGE: LDS Ancestor file - Doc. AFN000125 Birth: 1049; Of,Saint Pol,Artois,France Marriage: Hugues II, Count of Saint Pol; About 1060; Of,Saint Pol,Artois, France
  
  === Line 53 from GEDCOM File not recognizabl ===
  Line 53 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: NAME Elizabeth // GIVN Elizabeth Line 54 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: NAME Elizabeth // SURN Line 57 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: SOUR @S01@
  
  === Ancestral File Number: G5QN-9D ===
  Ancestral File Number: G5QN-9D
  
  === Source: RC 184, 235; Kraentzler 1216. K: ===
  Source: RC 184, 235; Kraentzler 1216. K: Elizabeth. RC: Helissende (Elisenda) de Pontheieu.
  
  === Parentage ===
  There are two possible solutions as to her parentage. There seems to have been a genealogical relationship between the coutns of St Pol and Ponthieu, but its nature is disputed. Central is a contemporary document in which Hugh, Count of St Pol, and Guy, Count of Ponthieu, are called "brothers". The most straightforward interpretation of this is that they were literally brothers. This is the position taken by historian Heather Tanner in her recent history of the region. Were this the case, then the nature of the relationship is clear, adn Elissende could not possibly have been closely related to the counts of Ponthieu, else her marriage to Hugh would have been prohibited. The alternative is that 'brothers' in the document actually here inteded brothers-in-law, and in this scenario, Hugh would have married Elissende, sister of Guy. As such, either Hugh or Elissende, BUT NOT BOTH, were born into the Ponthieu family as child of Hugh II of Ponthieu. There is no scenario whereby Elissende was daughter of any other Ponthieu count, and she was only daughter of Hugh II of Ponthieu if Hugh of St Pol was not.
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 January 1996. From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 January 1996.
  
  === #Générale# Possible. Cette ascendance es ===
  #Générale# Possible. Cette ascendance est donnée par Pau l Theroff dansl'ahnentafe l de Philippa de Coucy, fille d'E nguerrand VIIet d'Isabelle d'Angleter re, tandis que Jacque s Saillot pense que le couple Enguerrand II de Po nthieu e t Alice deNormandie est resté sans postérité.
  
  === parentage ===
  The broadly circulated reconstruction of this generation fothe Counts of St Pol was devised int eh 19th century, based on very little evidence. Because Hugh of St Pol named a son Enguerrand, a name used by the Counts of Ponthieu, it was speculated that his wife Elissende was a member of this family. Hugh was made son of an earlier Hugh in the region with no documented connection to him.
  
  Not used in this reconstruction was a contemporary documetn in which Hugh of St Pol and Guy de Ponthieu were called 'brothers'. The most straightfoerward interpretation fo this is that Hugh was brother of Enguerrand and Guy de Ponthieu. This is the interpretation followed by recent historian Heather Tanner in her book on the region in this era. This would entirely explain teh use of the name Enguerrand by Hugh for his son, as he wuld be naming the child after his recently-deceased brother.
  
  An alternative interpretation is that the document was imprecise, and was referring to Hugh and Guy as brothers by marriage - brothers-in-law. This would mean that it was Elissende, and not Hugh, who ws sister of Enguerrand and Guy de Ponthieu.
  
  So, one or the other spouse was a child of Hugh II de Ponthieu, and the other is of unknown parentage.
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 January 1996.
  
  === !#552-v3-t622; ===
  !#552-v3-t622;
  
  === #Générale# Possible. Cette ascendance e ===
  #Générale# Possible. Cette ascendance est donnée par Pau l Theroff dansl'ahnentafe l de Philippa de Coucy, fille d'E nguerrand VIIet d'Isabelle d'Angleter re, tandis que Jacque s Saillot pense que le couple Enguerrand II de Po nthieu e t Alice deNormandie est resté sans postérité.
  
  === end of known line ===
  end of known line
  
  === !NOTE: The Church of Jesus Christ of Lat ===
  !NOTE: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Ancestral File (TM); ; June 1998 (c), data as of 5 JAN 1998; ; , Family History Library, 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, UT 84150 USA
  
  === Ascendance pas sure. ===
  Ascendance pas sure.

1. Hugh de St. Pol III Count of Saint-Pol, b. 1068 in Artois, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France     d. 1145 in Saint-Pol-sur-Mer, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France

1. Title: Hugh II, Count of Saint-Pol - Wikipedia
   Publication: Name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_II,_Count_of_Saint-Pol;
   
2. Title: Helissende de Montreuil - Medlands
   Publication: Name: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#HuguesIISaintPoldied1145;
   
3. Title: HELISSENDE de Montreuil
   Author: FMG Projects/MedLands
   Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfraamp.htm#HelissendePonthieuMHuguesIISaintPol;
   Note: c) HELISSENDE de Montreuil . The primary source which confirms her parentage has not been identified. 1096. "Comes Hugo de Sancto Paulo" donated property to the abbey of Molesme with the consent of "uxoris sue Helisendis filiorumque suorum Ingelranni et Hugonis" by charter dated 17 Jun 1095[710]. m (before 1091) HUGUES [II] Comte de Saint-Pol, son of --- (-before [1118/19]).
   Page: Source record for HELISSENDE de Montreuil