Adelais de Soupir

• Preferred Name: Adelais de Soupir^[1]
  
• Gender: F
  
• Death: 1197 in Forcalquier, Forcalquier, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur, France at LATI: N3.9598 LONG: E0.7809
  
• Birth: 7 MAR 1137 in Soupir, Aisne, Picardie, France at LATI: N9.4069 LONG: E0.5972
  
• FSID: LYGN-41V
  
• Nickname:
  
• Title (Nobility): with note: Description: Countess of Forcalquier
  
• Notes:

  http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Cherisy-Quierzy-Pierrefonds.pdf
  
  === THE PLANTAGENET ANCESTRY (GS NUMBER Q940 ===
  THE PLANTAGENET ANCESTRY (GS NUMBER Q940 D2T) P.184;
  
  === Moriarty (Plantagenet Ancestry) pp. 98-1 ===
  Moriarty (Plantagenet Ancestry) pp. 98-101.
  
  === #Générale# dite aussi de BEZIERS. La.fil ===
  #Générale# dite aussi de BEZIERS. La.filiation avec ses parents reste à vérifier.
  
  === zie famsearch bij echtgenoot ===
  zie famsearch bij echtgenoot
  
  === Sources: RC 116, 195; AF. In RC 116 she ===
  Sources: RC 116, 195; AF. In RC 116 she is called Beatrice, mother of Gersinde. In RC 195 she iscalled Adelaide, mother of Gersende. In Kraentzler 1064 she is called Margueritede Bourbon.
  
  === Alix² de Roucy ===
  Alix² de Roucy
  Also Known As:
  "Adélaïde de Sapir"
  Birthdate:
  1137 (25)
  Birthplace:
  Guise, Aisne, France
  Death:
  1162 (25)
  Y,,,
  Immediate Family:
  Daughter of Hugues, comte de Roucy and Richilde von Hohenstaufen
  Wife of Bouchard van Guise, seigneur de Guise
  Mother of Alix de Guise
  Sister of Robert Guiscard de Roucy and Hugues de Roucy, seigneur de Thosny et du Bois
  Half sister of Halwide de Roucy and Ade de Roucy, dame de Pierrefonds
  Occupation:
  Dame de Pierrefonds
  
  === SORLEY'S PEDIGREES (GS NUMBER Q929.242 S ===
  SORLEY'S PEDIGREES (GS NUMBER Q929.242 SO68) P.26; THE PLANTAGENET ANCESTRY (GS NUMBER Q940 D2T) P.11; ANCESTRAL FILE, LDS GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY;
  
  === !#552-v7-t17; ===
  !#552-v7-t17;
  
  === I originally had Marguierite de Bourbon ===
  I originally had Marguierite de Bourbon as wife of Guillaume; Turton states that Guillaume's wife is Beatrice (no last name); some on World Connect name her Beatrice de Beziers; still others name her Adelaide de Beziers; but I am following a fellow (I originally guessed Pablo was a Frenchman?, but Curt Hofemann says he is an Argentinian living in Miami) named Pablo Mera Gadea, who names her Adelaide Trencavel. She is probably the same person referred to as Adelaide de Beziers, as Adelaide's father was Raimond Trencavel, Viscount of Carcassonne, Rasès, Béziers, Agde, & Albi.
  
  Note that, according to a posting to SGM by Nathaniel Taylor (citing tables by the Catalan genealogist Armand de Fluvia i Escorsa in two tables (s.v. AEnimes and AECarcasona) in the multi-volume 'Gran Enciclopedia Catalana', making no claims to accuracy), Adelaide Trencavel m. Sicard Viscount of Lautrec, and she had a sister Beatrice who m. Raimond VI Count of Toulouse.
  
  Maybe it was her sister Beatrice Trencavel (per Turton (her 1st name) & World Connect people) that married Raimond, instead of Adelaide; or maybe Adelaide & Beatrice married the husbands that Nathaniel Taylor indicated. But, like I said, I am following Pablo Mera Gadea's pedigree. There are also numerous postings to SGM that name her Adelaide de Beziers, without giving her any ancestry.
  
  ---------------------
  
  The following excerpt from a post to SGM, 10 Jun 2003, by "History Writer", illustrates the confusion, but lends some support to my pedigree:
  
  From: History Writer (hbv2061@aol.com)
  Subject: Re: Queen Victoria's Matrilineal Line
  Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
  Date: 2003-06-10 04:26:59 PST
  
  Chronologically, it would appear that Adelaide Trencavel, who apparently also is known (per the Theroff files) as Adelaide de Beziers (the Trencavels were also Vicomtes de Beziers), may have been a daughter of Raimond Trencavel I. Beatrix Trencavel is listed here as the wife of Raimond VI, Comte de Toulouse. However, Raimond Trencavel's daughter Adelaida Trencavel is listed as the wife of Sicard, Vicomte de Lautrec. In roglo, Sicard's only wife is listed as Agnes de Mauvoisin. If this is the Adelaide Trencavel who became the wife of Guillaume IV de Forcalquier, then she is a good candidate to be the matrilineal ancestress of Queen Victoria. This Adelaide's mother, Saura, is apparently of unknown origin.
  
  I should note that in addition to Adelaide Trencavel (or Adelaide de Beziers) and Beatrix de Beziers, there is another woman listed as Garsende de Forcalquier's mother, she is Marguerite de Bourbon, according to Planche 546 in "Les Seize Quartiers Genealogiques des Capitiens" by J.-D. de Joannis (1987). Though it is unclear who Joannis's source is. Comments welcome. Best Regards.
  
  Note: Todd Farmerie, in an adjunct to this post (referring to a post that was similar to the above post), thinks both "Beziers" and "Trencavel" are guesses, being not well documented.
  
  Note: History Writer has Adelaide's mother as Raymond's 2nd wife Saura; Nathaniel Taylor's source also has Adelaide (although he doesn't connect her to Guillaume) by the 2nd wife. Following Pablo Mera Gadea's pedigree, I had Adelaide as daughter of Raymond's 1st wife, but am changing to agree with the sources.
  
  --------------------
  
  Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@yahoo.com, among numerous other references adds these to the pile of confused pedigrees:
  
  Of the 270 listings on Rootsweb WorldConnect using Guillaume de Forcalquier & death date 1208 ± 10 years as search parameters, 95% of those listing his wife as Marguerite de Bourbon & a source, cite LDS Ancestor File AFN: PZ5V-PF, submitter: Medieval Families C/O Family History Dept (a dept. of the Family History Library itself)... Curt
  
  Interestingly enough I have Adelaide de Bezieres as the wife of Guillaume IV and the mother of his daughter Gersende de Forcalquier. No other details. However in "Les Seize Quartiers Généalogiques des Capétiens" by J.-D. de Joannis planche 546 #43 , it shows Marguerite de Bourbon (no ancestry) as the wife of Guillaume and the mother of his daughter Gersende "fille unique". [Ref: Henry Soszynski 27 Dec 1999]
  
  ..See *Europaeische Stammtafeln*, ed. Schwennicke, Band III, Teilband 1 [1984], Tafel 118. The line ends up as follows:
  
  1. Adelaide de Bezieres m. Guillaume IV C de Forcalquier (d. 1209)
  ..I've seen some speculation about the parentage and ancestry of Adelaide deBezieres, but I haven't seen it tightened up. [Ref: WAR 15 Aug 2000]

1. Adeline de Guise, b. 21 AUG 1155 in Guise, Aisne, Picardie, France     d. 1207 in Somme, Picardie, France

1. Title: ADELAIS, daughter of BAUDOUIN de Soupir & his wife Machane ---
   Author: FMG Projects/MedLands
   Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#AdelineGuiseMJacquesAvesnes;
   Note: BOUCHARD de Guise (-after 1161)...m ADELAIS, daughter of BAUDOUIN de Soupir & his wife Machane ---. Bouchard & his wife had one child: a) ADELINE de Guise (-after 1200).
   Page: Source record for ADELAIS, daughter of BAUDOUIN de Soupir & his wife Machane ---