Robert de Mucegros, Knight

• Preferred Name: Robert de Mucegros, Knight^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9]}
  
• Alternate Name: Robert De Mucegros
  
• Alternate Name: Robert De Muscegros
  
• Gender: M
  
• FSID: LT87-6XS
  
• LdsBaptism: 14 FEB 1991 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• AFN: with note: Description: FSLG-T6 Prior research.
  
• Birth: 1207 in Deerhurst, Gloucestershire, England, United Kingdom at LATI: N1.96 LONG: E2.19 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• Fact: with note: Description: https://www.geni.com/people/Robert-de-Muscegros-Knight/6000000003243309006?through=6000000002766728593
  
• Burial: BEF 29 JAN 1254 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• LdsSealingToParents: 19 FEB 1991 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• LdsEndowment: 16 FEB 1991 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• Death: 29 JAN 1254 in Brewham, Somerset, England at LATI: N1.1197 LONG: E2.9 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• http://familysearch.org/v1/TitleOfNobility: Sir
  
• Notes:

  BIO
  BIO: from Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700, 8th Edition, 189:2, 234A:29
  
  Hawise Malet married Sir Robert de Muscegros, and was the daughter of Sir William
  
  === SORLEY'S PEDIGREES (GS NUMBER Q929.242 S ===
  SORLEY'S PEDIGREES (GS NUMBER Q929.242 SO68) P.25, 55; ANCESTRAL FILE, LDS GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY;
  
  === He was of Charlton, Norton and Boddingto ===
  He was of Charlton, Norton and Boddington England.
  
  === SOURCE: Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 57- ===
  SOURCE: Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 57-2. of Charlton.
  
  === Of Charlton, Somerset ===
  Of Charlton, Somerset
  
  === !SOURCE: "Magna Charta," Part VIII, by J ===
  !SOURCE: "Magna Charta," Part VIII, by John B. Wurts, chp 285, pp2693 -2699 of Berwain & Norton
  
  === BIBLIOGRAPHY:
  Cokayne, George Edward, Co ===
  BIBLIOGRAPHY:
  Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, GreatBritain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant. Gloucester: ASutton, 1982.
  
  Watney, Vernon James, The Wallop Family and their Ancestry, Oxford:JohnJohnson, 1928. LDS Film#1696491 items 6-9.
  
  Weis, Frederick Lewis, Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, David Faris, Ancestral Rootsof Certain American Colonists who came to America before 1700, 7th Edition,Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1992.
  
  RESEARCH NOTES:
  of Charlton and Norton, Somerset, and of Boddington, co. Gloucester [Ref:Watney WALLOP #719]
  
  Sources for this Information:
  date: 1253 [Ref: Watney WALLOP #719] shortly before Jan 29 1253/4 [Ref: WeisAR7 #189, Weis AR7 #234A], place: of Charlton [Ref: Weis AR7 #189, Weis AR7#234A]
  
  === !AKA: Sir Robert de Muscegros, of Charlt ===
  !AKA: Sir Robert de Muscegros, of Charlton, Somerset - Doc. Line 189-2, 234A-29 !DEATH: Date: Shortly before January 29, 1253-1254 - Doc. Line 189-2, 234A-29 !MARRIAGE: Sir Robert de Muscegros and Hawise Malet - Doc. Line 189-2, 234A-29 Date: Before February 11, 1220/1221 - Doc. Line 189-2, 234A-29
  
  === !Ancestral Roots by Weis, Seventh Editio ===
  !Ancestral Roots by Weis, Seventh Edition L 189-2.
  
  === Sources: A Roots and Colket. Of Charlton ===
  Sources: A Roots and Colket. Of Charlton, Norton and Boddington.
  
  === Some background information concerning the Mucegros (Musgrave) family in England ===
  The origins of the Mucegros family (also spelled Muscegros, Mussegros, Mucelgros, Musgrove and later anglicized as Musgrave) is very much a mystery. The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, reports there was a Robert de Mucelgros documented by Orderic Vitalis in his Ecclesiastical History of England and Normandy, but with no additional information [Robert de Mucelgros is found in FamilySearch.org under PID GW35-3LD and currently attached to no one]. The Battle Abbey Roll also reports there was a Roger de Mucelgros who appears in the Domesday Book in 1086 [Roger de Mucelgros is found in FamilySearch.org under PID GW3P-BGC and currently attached to no one]. The Domesday Book does, in fact, confirm Roger de Mucelgros (spelled Mussegros ) as the holder of three manors, apparently received from William the Conqueror for services in the Conquest of England in 1066. The same two individuals are also named in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants, pg. 341 [See documents attached in the Memories section of each of those individuals]. That begs the question: What is the connection between Robert and Roger de Mucelgros? Are they father and son? Are they brothers? Or is there another relationship between the two? Currently there appears no way from historical records to further identify those two members of the Mucegros family. The Dormant and Extinct Baronage of England, pg. 382, relates a very fanciful story about the origins the Musegros (Musgrave) family as coming from Germany. The Battle Abbey Roll also mentions the tale of German origin, but seems to pass it off as fantasy. That the Mucegros family originated in Normandy, France, seems to be a certainty. After the above-named Robert and Roger de Mucelgros, the Mucegros family seems to disappear from view until the late 1100s. There must be three or four missing generations between Robert and Roger de Mucelgros and the next documented Mucegros family members.
  
  The first truly documented Mucegros family members are Richard de Mucegros and his brother Simon de Mucegros (about 1180-1190) who married two sisters, Alice de Dive and Asceline de Dive respectively, a classic case of two brothers marrying two sisters. Those four individuals are well documented in a Dive pedigree found in The History and Antiquities of the County of Northampton and in several entries in British History Online [See documents attached to each of the above individuals in the Memories section of each].
  
  What is not clear is how Richard and Simon de Mucegros are connected to the two previously mentioned Richard and Roger de Mucelgros. Clearly a good 100 years of time elapses between Richard and Roger de Mucelgros and Richard and Simon de Mucegros. Missing are likely four generations of the family, but who and where they are is currently a complete enigma.
  
  Richard de Mucegros and Alice de Dive are the parents of a Robert Muscegros who married Helewise (Hawise) Malet, daughter of William Malet of Curry Malet. Again, this Robert Muscegros and Hawise Malet are well documented in several historical records. They are the parents of John Muscegros who is the father of another Robert Muscegros who is the father of Hawise Mucegros who married three times: 1. William de Mortimer, 2. John de Ferrers and 3. John de Bures. All of these individuals are well documented in several historical records [See documents attached to each in their respective Memories sections].
  
  Simon de Mucegros and Asceline de Dive are the parents of a John de Mucegros whose coheirs were his sisters Alice and Agnes de Mucegros, also children of Simon Mucegros and Anceline de Dive. These individuals are, again, well documented in historical records.
  
  Some private records suggest that the father of the brothers Richard and Simon de Mucegros is a Robert de Mucegros. However, there appears to be very limited historical evidence to substantiate that supposition. The previously cited The Norman People and their Existing Descendants also reports the following cryptic comment: “Musgrove or Mucegros. Matthew, John, and Robert Mucegros, Normandy 1180.” It is currently unknown who these individuals are and what, if any, connection they have to the previously mentioned Mucegros family members. It is also unclear exactly what is meant by the above-quoted statement. Are they three brothers? Are they a father and two sons? Are they three cousins? Did they arrive in England from Normandy in 1180? And, is the mentioned Robert the same person as the reported Robert de Mucegros, father of Richard and Simon? If the Robert named in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants is the father of Richard and Simon, the timing of 1180 would appear to be about the right time frame. Richard and Simon Mucegros were likely born between 1180 and 1190 and were almost certainly born in England. If that Robert is the father of Richard and Simon and if the date 1180 is his arrival date in England, it would put him in the right place (England) at the right time (1180) to be the father of Richard and Simon and would provide one of the missing generations in the Mucegros pedigree. But that begs the question: What happened to Matthew and John, the other two names mentioned in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants?
  
  At present, there seems to be no clear evidence to answer the questions set forth above. However, in pursuing the above analysis, I am going to currently place the Robert Mucegros named in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants as the reported father of Richard and Simon Mucegros until such time as additional records disprove that supposition. As to the original Robert and Roger de Mucelgros, it seems that at least three additional missing generations will need to be identified in order to connect them to their likely posterity who don’t appear in historical records until the mid-to-late 1100s.
  
  === [JaneMorgan.FTW]
  
  Sir Robert was of Berw ===
  [JaneMorgan.FTW]
  
  Sir Robert was of Berwain and Norton in one account and of Chalrton, Somersetshire in another ["Ancestral Roots..." (1992), p. 161].
  
  === !Brown book 5, chart 142. 2nd Husband of ===
  !Brown book 5, chart 142. 2nd Husband of Hawise.
  
  === Robert de Musegros, of Berwain and Nort ===
  Robert de Musegros, of Berwain and Norton, Knight of King Henry III. He was Keeper of Savernake Forest, May 4, 1252. He held the Manors of Brynham, Cherlton, and Norton. He died January 29, 1253 or 1254 (Ref.: Harleain Society, "Knights of Edward I, p.230). (Note: Mussegros is a canton of Fleurigny-sur-Andelle in the arrondissement of Les Andelys. The name is presumed to have been derived from Musgrave or Mewsgrave, "the keeper of the king's hawks, or the king's equerry." Roger de Mucelgros, who is said to have been at Senlac, was a tenant-in-chief in Herefordshire in 1086 (Domesday), where he gave his name to Lude-Muchgros. His descendants spread to many parts of England and in the 13th century the family held estates in Somerset, Dorset, Gloucester, and Hereford. Charlton Musgrove in Somerset is named from it, hence the baronets Musgrove. (Ref: Crispin & Macary, "Falaise Rolls").
  
  === !Weis. 189-2, 234A-29. Sir Robert de M ===
  !Weis. 189-2, 234A-29. Sir Robert de Muscegros was of Charlton, co. Somerset. He died shortly before 29 Jan. 1253/4.
  
  === Held the Manors of Baynham, Cherlton, A ===
  Held the Manors of Baynham, Cherlton, And Norton.

• m. 4 FEB 1220 in Curry Mallet, Somerset, England

1. Mabel de Muscegros, b. 1243 in Setringham, Yorkshire, England     d. BEF 1284 in Suffolk, England
2. John de Muscegros, b. 10 AUG 1232 in Charlton Musgrove, Wincanton, Somerset, England     d. BEF 8 MAY 1275 in Charlton Musgrove, Wincanton, Somerset, England

1. Title: Robert de Muscegros and Hawise Malet and family in Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57 [See document in the memories section]
   Author: Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57
   Note: Robert de Muscegros and Hawise Malet and family in Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57 [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Robert de Muscegros and Hawise Malet and family in Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57 [See document in the memories section]
   
2. Title: Robert, Sir John, Sir Robert and Hawise de Mucegros (Musgrove) in British History Online ~https://www.british-history.ac.uk/ [See document in the memories section]
   Publication: Name: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/;
   Note: Robert, Sir John, Sir Robert and Hawise de Mucegros (Musgrove) in British History Online ~https://www.british-history.ac.uk/ [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Robert, Sir John, Sir Robert and Hawise de Mucegros (Musgrove) in British History Online ~https://www.british-history.ac.uk/ [See document in the memories section]
   
3. Title: Robert Mucegros and Helewise Malet in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 263-264 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 263-264
   Note: Robert Mucegros and Helewise Malet in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 263-264 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Robert Mucegros and Helewise Malet in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 263-264 [See document in the Memories section]
   
4. Title: Musegros (Musgrose) family members in A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507 [See document in the memories section]
   Author: A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507
   Note: Musegros (Musgrose) family members in A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507 [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Musegros (Musgrose) family members in A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507 [See document in the memories section]
   
5. Title: Hawise Malet and Robert de Mucegros in Ancestral Roots of Certain Colonists Who Came to America, Line 189 and 234A-29 [See document in the memories section]
   Author: Ancestral Roots of Certain Colonists Who Came to America, Line 189 and 234A-29
   Note: Hawise Malet and Robert de Mucegros in Ancestral Roots of Certain Colonists Who Came to America, Line 189 and 234A-29 [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Hawise Malet and Robert de Mucegros in Ancestral Roots of Certain Colonists Who Came to America, Line 189 and 234A-29 [See document in the memories section]
   
6. Title: Mucegros (Musgrave) family in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 260-270 [See document in the memories section]
   Author: Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 260-270
   Note: Mucegros (Musgrave) family in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 260-270 [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Mucegros (Musgrave) family in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 260-270 [See document in the memories section]
   
7. Title: Robert de Muscegros and Richard de Muscegros from Magna Charta Ancestry [See document in the memories section]
   Author: Magna Charta Ancestry
   Note: Robert de Muscegros and Richard de Muscegros from Magna Charta Ancestry [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Robert de Muscegros and Richard de Muscegros from Magna Charta Ancestry [See document in the memories section]
   
8. Title: Mucegros family members named in British History Online ~www.british-history.ac.uk [See document in the Memories section]
   Publication: Name: http://www.british-history.ac.uk;
   Note: Mucegros family members named in British History Online ~www.british-history.ac.uk [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Mucegros family members named in British History Online ~www.british-history.ac.uk [See document in the Memories section]
   
9. Title: Dive family pedigree in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161
   Note: Dive family pedigree in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Dive family pedigree in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161 [See document in the Memories section]