Alice de Dives

• Preferred Name: Alice de Dives^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]}
  
• Gender: F
  
• LdsSealingToParents: 19 FEB 1991 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• Death: Y
  
• LdsEndowment: 16 FEB 1991 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• LdsBaptism: 14 FEB 1991 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• Birth: 1192 in Dive, Northamptonshire, England at LATI: N2.35 LONG: E0.85 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• Fact: with note: Description: https://www.geni.com/people/Alice-de-Dives/6000000003087186783?through=6000000003087186774
  
• FSID: L2LH-7ZF
  
• Notes:

  === SORLEY'S PEDIGREES (GS NUMBER Q929.242 S ===
  SORLEY'S PEDIGREES (GS NUMBER Q929.242 SO68) P.25, 55; ANCESTRAL FILE, LDS GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY;
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 JAN 1998.
  
  === Some background information concerning the origins of the Dive family in England ===
  A number of the members of the extended Dive family in England are well documented in several old records. Volume 1 of the Battle Abbey Roll identifies the first of the Dive family in England as Boselin de Dive (also Diva and spelled Beuselin de Dive in the Battle Abbey Roll) [See document in the Memories section for Boselin]. Boselin de Dive also appears in the Domesday Book of William the Conqueror when Boselin and also his wife received lands from the Conqueror following the Conquest of England in 1066 [See document in the Memories section for Boselin]. Boselin’s wife is not named, only listed as “Boselin de Dive’s Wife”. However, Boselin further appears in British History Online [See document in the Memories section for Boselin] and one entry in British History Online states “Henry I. grants to Boseline and Alfnia his wife”, suggesting that Boselin de Dive’s wife is Alfnia, surname not given.
  
  Immediately following Boselin de Dive in the Battle Abbey Roll is an entry for Hugh de Dive (Diva) and some generations descending from Hugh. However, the Battle Abbey Roll makes no effort to establish any connection between Boselin and Hugh, suggesting only from their near placement to each other that they must be connected somehow. Examining known dates, it is obvious that Boselin and Alfnia could not be the parents of Hugh. If both Boselin and Alfnia received lands following the Conquest of England, they must have both been adults, suggesting they had to have been born by 1040-1045 or earlier. Hugh de Dive was reportedly born about 1114. Boselin and Alfnia would have been well into their seventies before Hugh’s birth, if they were even still alive, and, thus, could not be his parents. Grandparents? Maybe. Or even great grandparents given the amount of time between Boselin and Hugh.
  
  There is another entry in British History Online, in an undated Charter from King Stephen, number 1391, confirming some land exchanges and grants of land to religious establishments made much earlier than Stephen’s time, one of which states “half a hide of land which William son of Boselin gave”, suggesting that Boselin had a son named William and providing the name for a missing generation. In another entry in the same charter, it states “the land of one villein (rusticus) which William de Diva gave when he became a monk”. This begs the question: are there two William de Dives or is the William the son of Boselin and the William who became a monk one and the same person? At first glance, it would seem that William son of Boselin and William the monk must be the same person. William the son of Boselin was likely born right after the Conquest, making his birth about 1067-68, which would make him about 47 years of age when Hugh was born in 1114. While that is possible, it seems rather unlikely. Did he father Hugh at that age? And did he right after Hugh’s birth become a monk? Immediately before the entry which names William de Dive the monk is an entry which states “and the wood there which Hugh de Diva gave”, suggesting that William the monk and Hugh are of the same time period. That entry, at the same time, would seem to add credence to the fact there could well be two William de Dives, likely father and son. William the son of Boselin would have been born about 1067 and the second William born about 1088-1090, and that second William would have been the father of Hugh. Which William became the monk? That is not clear, but likely the second William. It would have been most helpful if the charter would have provided dates for each of the entries which it did not. What does seem clear is that Hugh de Dive was an adult when he gave “the wood”, suggesting that must have happened sometime after 1135 and that appears to be about the time William became the monk. If that were the first William, he would have been at least 68 years of age, if he was still alive.
  
  Pursuing the above analysis, I have chosen to accept the probability of two William de Dives, making the pedigree line proceed as follows: Boselin de Dive (1040), father of William de Dive (1067), father of William de Dive (1090), father of Hugh de Dive (1114).
  
  Hugh de Dive was married to a woman named Helewise and they were the parents of yet another William de Dive (a third William). That William de Dive married Maud (or Matilda) de Waterville (from another family arriving in England at the time of the Conquest). That William de Dive and Maud de Waterville had three children: Hugh de Dive (a second Hugh), Maud (or Matilda) de Dive (married to William FitzOtho), and Ralph de Dive. A report in the Antiquities of Shropshire, Vol. 9, [See document in the memories section of Maud) dated 1185, states that Maud was 35 years of age, suggesting she was born about 1150 and that she was a widow, suggesting that William de Dive (III) died before 1185. Maud apparently lived until at least 1222.
  
  Hugh de Dive (II), son of William de Dive (III) and Maud de Waterville, was married to a woman named Agnes and they were the parents of three daughters, often referred to as coheiresses: Matilda de Dive, Alice de Dive and Asceline de Dive. One record in British History Online suggests that William de Dive and Maud de Waterville are the parents of the three coheiresses, but that is obviously in error. The three coheiresses were born between 1190 and 1200 which is after the death of William de Dive who died before 1185.
  
  Matilda de Dive, daughter of Hugh de Dive (II), in 1210 reportedly tried to pay a fine to keep from getting married, but apparently then agreed to the marriage and married Saher de Saint Andrew. Alice de Dive married Richard Mucegros (also Muscegros) and Asceline de Dive married Simon Mucegros, a classic case of two sisters marrying two brothers [See document titled “Dive family pedigree in the History and Antiquities of Northampton” in the Memories section attached to each one]. The three sister coheiresses likely all married between 1210 and 1220. The Mucegros family (later anglicized as Musgrave) was another family arriving in England at the time of the Conquest in 1066.

1. John de Muscegros, b. 10 AUG 1232 in Charlton Musgrove, Wincanton, Somerset, England     d. BEF 8 MAY 1275 in Charlton Musgrove, Wincanton, Somerset, England
2. Robert de Mucegros, Knight, b. 1207 in Deerhurst, Gloucestershire, England, United Kingdom     d. 29 JAN 1254 in Brewham, Somerset, England

1. Title: Hugh de Dive II in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg. 160 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg. 160
   Note: Hugh de Dive II in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg. 160 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Hugh de Dive II in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg. 160 [See document in the Memories section]
   
2. Title: Dive family in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 1, pg. 281 [See document in the memories section]
   Author: Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 1, pg. 281
   Note: Dive family in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 1, pg. 281 [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Dive family in the Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 1, pg. 281 [See document in the memories section]
   
3. Title: Mucegros family members named in British History Online ~www.british-history.ac.uk [See document in the Memories section]
   Publication: Name: http://www.british-history.ac.uk;
   Note: Mucegros family members named in British History Online ~www.british-history.ac.uk [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Mucegros family members named in British History Online ~www.british-history.ac.uk [See document in the Memories section]
   
4. Title: William de Dive and his wife Maud de Waterville (Dive) in British History Online ~https://www.britishhistory.ac.uk/ [See document in the Memories section]
   Publication: Name: https://www.britishhistory.ac.uk/;
   Note: William de Dive and his wife Maud de Waterville (Dive) in British History Online ~https://www.britishhistory.ac.uk/ [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: William de Dive and his wife Maud de Waterville (Dive) in British History Online ~https://www.britishhistory.ac.uk/ [See document in the Memories section]
   
5. Title: Dive family pedigree in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161
   Note: Dive family pedigree in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Dive family pedigree in the History and Antiquities of Northampton, Vol. 1, pg.160-161 [See document in the Memories section]