Johans de Saint Pierre

• Preferred Name: Johans de Saint Pierre^{[1] [2] [3]}
  
• Gender: M
  
• https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/St_Pierre-12: with note: Description: Wikitree
  
• https://www.geni.com/people/Johans-de-Saint-Pierre/6000000003615648837: with note: Description: Geni
  
• Death: 1181 with note: GEDCOM data
  
• Birth: 1143 in St Pierre, Monmouthshire, Wales at LATI: N1.6103 LONG: E2.709 with note: St Pierre & Runstone, Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales
  
• FSID: G9J1-LHR
  
• Notes:

  === Life Sketch ===
  Sadly, there is no evidence that that Johans is the son of William Fitzranulf (LYC8-SMJ) as many suppose.
  Firstly, if the dates are to be believed, he was born well after his supposed father died.
  Secondly, and more conclusively, the Fitzranulf estate had no male hiers and was divided between his daughters. If Johans had been his son it would have gone to him or his hiers. That was the way estates were passed down in the Middle Ages. Girls were a last resort.
  
  It would be nice to have William Fitzranulf as an ancestor, but there is really no evidence. I think it arises from a surmise or family story passed down in some book I have lost the reference to? I recall seeing it many years ago.
  
  Comment found on an old family tree: “Many other researchers have concluded that the St Pierre's are directly descended from the Le Meschines family, Earls of Chester. I have not found any evidence to confirm this. The St Pierres are related to the Earls, but via the marrriage of Urian St Pierre to Idonea de Malpas. This marriage and her background are well documented. Through her the subsequent St Pierres are related to the Le Meschines, and thereby to Charlemagene and the royal houses of France, Sweden, Norway and England etc.”
  
  The families may have known each other and had some relationship, but no blood ties? I dare say the nobility in Cheshire all knew each other back then. Further research needed.
  
  Wikitree speaking of his alleged father William Fitzranulf:
  “No documentation has been found supporting an additional son, Johan de St Pierre, born 1143, 8 years after his death, in Wales, 8 years after the death of William le Meschin [LYC8-SMJ], and Johan has been disconnected.” [wikitree]
  
  === wikitree Disambiguation and Urian Line of Descent ===
  Disambiguation and Urian Line of Descent
  
  Johan St. Pierre born 1143, St. Pierre, Monmouthshire, Wales
  William St. Pierre. born 1181, St. Pierre, Monmouthshire, Wales.
  John de St. Pierre. born 1225, St. Pierre & Cheptowe, Monmouthsire, Wales. Married Katherine Dutton
  Urian, born 1236, son of John, born 1225, and Katherine Dutton. Married Idumea. [Idonea] This Urian cannot be the Urian de Saint Pierre addressed by Douglas Richardson [3], because (1) the Urian named by Richardson was born in 1279, four years after this Urian appeared, married to Margaret, in a court case, and (2) Richardson's Urian married Iseult de Grey, who survived him, while Margaret survived the Urian here. Neither the Urian who married Margaret not the Urian who married Iseult could have married Idonea Malpas.
  John de Sancto Petro, born 1262 in Egerton, Cheshire, England
  Urian, born 19 May, 1277, son of John born 1262, brother of Ellen. This is probably the same Urian named by Richardson.
  John St Pierre, born 1308, Shocklatch, Cheshire, England
  
  Other Urians
  
  Urian de St Pier, born, say, 1350, father of Margaret[4]
  
  [10.7.21]

1. Title: Wikitree
   Publication: Name: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/St_Pierre-12;
   Note: St Pierre in Monmouthshire St. Pierre today is in Monmouthshire, Wales, near Chepstowe. and the Severn River bridges. What was the manor and manor house has become the St. Pierre Marriot Hotel and Country Club. In the chancel of St. Peter's Church are two ancient stone coffin lids, each bearing an inscription in Norman French. One of them is to Urien de St Pierre, lord of the manor, who died in 1239.
   
2. Title: Geneanet
   Publication: Name: https://gw.geneanet.org/foullon?lang=en&n=de+saint+pierre&oc=0&p=johans+de+st.+pierre;
   Note: Some of the information is suspect. Johans could not have been the son of William Fitzranulf as Johan was born well after his death and it seems to be a historical fact that the estate of William was divided between his daughters, there being no surviving male children.
   
3. Title: Geni
   Publication: Name: https://www.geni.com/people/Johans-de-Saint-Pierre/6000000003615648837;
   Note: Again, parents are wrong.
   Page: Again, parents are wrong.