Herbert de Vermandois of Winchester Chamberlain of England

• Preferred Name: Herbert de Vermandois of Winchester Chamberlain of England^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34]}
  
• Alternate Name: Herbert fitz Alberic
  
• Gender: M
  
• Occupation: Treasurer of England under King William and King Henry1066
  
• Life Sketch: with note: Description: Wikipedia Herbert of Winchester (sometimes Herbert fitzAlberic) was an Anglo-Norman nobleman during the period following the Norman conquest of England. Herbert held land as an under-tenant of the Archbishop of York in the Domesday Survey of 1089. He held the office of chamberlain of the Winchester treasury during the reign of King William II of England, and the office of chancellor and treasurer under King Henry I. During William II's reign, Herbert became a tenant-in-chief, holding lands directly from the king. Herbert may have been a member of the clergy, although it is known that he was married. Most sources state that Herbert married Emma, half-sister of King Stephen and Henry of Blois, Bishop of Winchester, and that she was an illegitimate daughter of Stephen II, Count of Blois, Stephen's father. New research, however, suggests that Emma might have been a daughter of Hunger fitzOdin, who held lands in Dorset in the Domesday survey. Herbert was the father of Herbert and William. William later became Archbishop of York. The younger Herbert became chamberlain to King David I of Scotland around 1156. Herbert was probably dead by 1129-1130, when the Pipe Roll of 1130 records his son as owing a fine for the inheritance of his father's lands, a fine totalling over 353 marks, perhaps as much as 500. However, there is no certain record of Herbert after 1111, and it is possible that he should be considered the same person as "H. the Chamberlain", who Abbot Suger of St Denis named as an attempted assassin of Henry I in 1118, and who was punished by the king for the attempt. Suger stated that the would-be-assassin was a chamberlain whose name began with "H", and who had been close to the king and received great rewards from the king. Suger added that the king only blinded and castrated the man, which the abbot considered to be mild compared with the hanging that the man deserved. William of Malmesbury does not name the assassin either, but relates that he had custody of the royal treasury. The historian C. Warren Hollister first made the identification between "H." and Herbert, noting that there was only one chamberlain in King Henry I's reign who had a name beginning with "H". The main argument against the identification is the fact that most records considered that Herbert remained in office until close to 1129 or 1130. However, charter evidence supports the inheritance of Herbert's lands by his son before 1121. 1 Biography 1.1 Name 1.2 1060 Birth 1.3 Reported Vermandois Ancestry -probably due to the influence and number of relatives ofthe Herbertian Dynasty intermingled with the Vermandois. 1.4 1066 Battle of Hastings -Herbert I 1.5 1089 Domesday Survey 1.6 Chamberlain of the Winchester Treasury 1.7 1101 Charter 1.8 Properties in Yorkshire and Gloucestershire 1.9 1086 Marriage to Emma 1.10 1100 Second Marriage to Millisent 1.11 1129 Death 1.12 Issue 2 Research Notes 2.1 UNKNOWN/UNPROVEN ANCESTRY -- DO NOT ATTACH ANY PARENTS! (OCTOBER 2014) 3 Sources 4 Acknowledgements Biography Per Wikipedia: Name "Herbert I of Winchester (sometimes Herbert fitzAlberic)[1] was an Anglo-Norman nobleman during the period following the Norman conquest of England. [1] Herbert of Winchester (also styled Herbert The Chamberlain), Chamberlain and Treasurer under Kings William II and Henry I. [2] Herbert "The Chamberlain" of Winchester. [3] 1060 Birth Herbert was born about 1060 in Winchester, Hampshire, England. [3] According to Geni, without other citation, he was the son of Herbert Cornwell FitzGodwyn [3] The primary source which confirms Herbert FitzHenry's parentage has not yet been identified. [4] Reported Vermandois Ancestry "This very ancient family from which the chivalrous house of Herbert and other eminent houses sprang, derived originally in England from Herbert, styled Count of Vermandois, who came over at the Conquest with the first William and filled the office of Chamberlain to William Rufus. He was great-grandson of Herbert, Comte de Vermandois, the lineal descendant of Charlemagne. [5] He is often called a son of Piers de Vermandois, who was probably invented to provide a genealogical link to the counts of Vermandois. According to Weis, his ancestry has not been proven. Burke's Commoners, a notoriously unreliable source, says he was a great grandson of Héribert de Vermandois.[3] 1089 Domesday Survey "Herbert held land as an under-tenant of the Archbishop of York in the Domesday Survey of 1089.[2] [1] Chamberlain of the Winchester Treasury He held the office of chamberlain of the Winchester treasury during the reign of King William II of England,[3] and the office of chancellor and treasurer under King Henry I.[4] [1] He was Chamberlain and Treasurer of England under William II and Henry I [3] 1101 Charter "…Herbertus regis camerarius…" subscribed a charter dated Sep 1101 under which Bishop Herbert donated property to Norwich priory[152]. [4] Properties in Yorkshire and Gloucestershire Chamberlain of Henry I King of England. An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…"[153].[4] During William II's reign, Herbert became a tenant-in-chief, holding lands directly from the king. Herbert may have been a member of the clergy, although it is known that he was married.[5][1] 1086 Marriage to Emma Marriage Date Estimation: Current birth year for oldest son is 1087. Estimate marriage the year prior. His wife was Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror, and by that lady left a son and heir, Herbert Fitz-Herbert." [5] "Most sources state that Herbert married Emma, half-sister of King Stephen and Henry of Blois, Bishop of Winchester,[6] and that she was an illegitimate daughter of Stephen II, Count of Blois, Stephen's father.[7] New research, however, suggests that Emma might have been a daughter of Hunger fitz Odin, who held lands in Dorset in the Domesday survey.[3][8][1] He married Emma ______, allegedly an illegitimate daughter of Etienne Henri, Count of Blois, and half-sister to Stephen, King of England. [2] He married first Emma de Blois-Champagne[3] m firstly EMMA de Blois, illegitimate daughter of ETIENNE Comte de Blois & his mistress --- (before 1102-). The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.[4] 1100 Second Marriage to Millisent Marriage Year Estimation. Assume Emma's death as untimely and his subsequent marriage to Millisent while there were children at home. He married secondly Milisent. [3] m secondly MILISENT, daughter of [ADAM], niece of William Turniant. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.[4] 1129 Death Sir Herbert Of Winchester was living in 1111, when he was a member of the Michelmas treasury court at Winchester. [2] However, there is no certain record of Herbert after 1111, and it is possible that he should be considered the same person as "H. the Chamberlain", who Abbot Suger of St Denis named as an attempted assassin of Henry I in 1118, and who was punished by the king for the attempt.[3] Suger stated that the would-be-assassin was a chamberlain whose name began with "H", and who had been close to the king and received great rewards from the king. Suger added that the king only blinded and castrated the man, which the abbot considered to be mild compared with the hanging that the man deserved. William of Malmesbury does not name the assassin either, but relates that he had custody of the royal treasury. The historian C. Warren Hollister first made the identification between "H." and Herbert, noting that there was only one chamberlain in King Henry I's reign who had a name beginning with "H". The main argument against the identification is the fact that most records considered that Herbert remained in office until close to 1129 or 1130. However, charter evidence supports the inheritance of Herbert's lands by his son before 1121.[9][1] Herbert [1] [2] Herbert Fitz Herbert II, lord of Blaen Llyfni [3] HERBERT FitzHerbert [I] (-[before 1155]The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Herbt fil Herbti Camer…tra patis sui" in Hampshire[154]. An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…"[155]. "…Hereberto filio Hereberti…" subscribed a charter of Renaud Earl of Cornwall which names "matertere mee Aliz Corbet"[156]. m ([1115/25]) SIBYL Corbet Lady of Alcester and Pontesbury, formerly mistress of HENRY I King of England, daughter of ROBERT Corbet of Alcester, co Warwick & his wife --- ([1090/95]-after 1157).
  
• Temple+Ordinances: with note: Description: Completed
  
• Occupation: Chancellor (Under King Henry 1) in Winchester, Hampshire, England at LATI: N1.0629 LONG: E1.3148 with note: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_of_Winchester
  
• Occupation: Chamberlain to Henry II, succeeded by his son
  
• Occupation: Chamberlain of Scotland
  
• Occupation: Lord Chamberlain of King Henry I
  
• FSID: L759-1GL
  
• Death: AFT 1130 in Winchester, Hampshire, England at LATI: N1.0629 LONG: E1.3148 with note: Winchester, Hampshire, England
  
• Occupation: Tenant-in-Chief (under King Henry II) in Winchester, Hampshire, England at LATI: N1.0629 LONG: E1.3148 with note: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_of_Winchester
  
• Title (Nobility): with note: Description: Lord of Cornwall
  
• Occupation: Chamberlain of England under King William and King Henry1066
  
• Birth: ABT 1070 in Aisne, Picardie, France at LATI: N9.5 LONG: E0.5 with note: John Pidding Jones Book Pg.503-530 https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~dearbornboutwell/genealogy/fam5097.html
  
• Notes:

  === Life Sketch ===
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_of_Winchester
  
  Herbert of Winchester (sometimes Herbert fitzAlberic) was an Anglo-Norman nobleman during the period following the Norman conquest of England.
  
  Herbert held land as an under-tenant of the Archbishop of York in the Domesday Survey of 1089. He held the office of chamberlain of the Winchester treasury during the reign of King William II of England, and the office of chancellor and treasurer under King Henry I. During William II's reign, Herbert became a tenant-in-chief, holding lands directly from the king. Herbert may have been a member of the clergy, although it is known that he was married.
  
  Most sources state that Herbert married Emma, half-sister of King Stephen and Henry of Blois, Bishop of Winchester, and that she was an illegitimate daughter of Stephen II, Count of Blois, Stephen's father. New research, however, suggests that Emma might have been a daughter of Hunger fitzOdin, who held lands in Dorset in the Domesday survey.
  
  Herbert was the father of Herbert and William. William later became Archbishop of York. The younger Herbert became chamberlain to King David I of Scotland around 1156.
  
  Herbert was probably dead by 1129-1130, when the Pipe Roll of 1130 records his son as owing a fine for the inheritance of his father's lands, a fine totalling over 353 marks, perhaps as much as 500. However, there is no certain record of Herbert after 1111, and it is possible that he should be considered the same person as "H. the Chamberlain", who Abbot Suger of St Denis named as an attempted assassin of Henry I in 1118, and who was punished by the king for the attempt. Suger stated that the would-be-assassin was a chamberlain whose name began with "H", and who had been close to the king and received great rewards from the king. Suger added that the king only blinded and castrated the man, which the abbot considered to be mild compared with the hanging that the man deserved. William of Malmesbury does not name the assassin either, but relates that he had custody of the royal treasury. The historian C. Warren Hollister first made the identification between "H." and Herbert, noting that there was only one chamberlain in King Henry I's reign who had a name beginning with "H". The main argument against the identification is the fact that most records considered that Herbert remained in office until close to 1129 or 1130. However, charter evidence supports the inheritance of Herbert's lands by his son before 1121.
  __________________________________________________
  
  https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain
  
  === Some background information concerning Herbert of Vermandois also referred to as Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) ===
  Henry FitzHerbert [Henrici Tresaurij] was the son of Herbert of Vermandois, who accompanied William the Conqueror to England in 1066. The Domeday Book of William the Conqueror (1086) records Herbert's name as Herbertus Camerarius [Herbert the Chamberlain]. He was reportedly married to Emma, illegitimate daughter of Stephen, Earl (Count) of Blois. However, this seems highly questionable from the dates of birth. A footnote in the "Family of Herbert" in the Archaeologia Cambrensis poses the following problem: "The wife of Herbert the Chamberlain is stated to have been Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror. If such marriage took place, she must have been his second wife, and certainly not the mother of Henry, son of Herbert, which birth must have occurred before any grand-daughter of the Conqueror was of age to be marriageable, - at any rate to be the mother of children."
  
  Stephen, the reported father of Emma, was married to Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror, but most pedigrees list Emma as an illegitimate daughter of Stephen. However, she was quite likely raised by Adela, Stephen’s wife, in the household.
  
  Concerning Herbert, Burke's Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire makes the following comments: "The house of Herbert deduces from Peter Fitzreginald...derived from Herbert Fitzherbert, son of Herbert, Chamberlain to William Rufus, and grandson of Peter, stated to have been the brother of Herbert, Count of Vermandois, and son of Otho, Count of Vermandois, 7th in descent, through the Counts of Vermandois and Kings of Italy and Lombardy, from Pepin, King of Italy and Lombardy, who d. A.D. 810, youngest son of Charlemagne, Emperor of the West."
  
  The Annuals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales states: "This very ancient family derive from Herbert (great grandson of Herbert, Count of Vermandois, lineal descendant of Charlemagne) who came to England with William the Conqueror."
  
  The above records would indicate that Herbert was of the house of Vermandois in Northern France (Normandy) and he, himself, was part of the Norman invasion of England under William the Conqueror. Although Burke's Genealogical History lists Peter of Vermandois as Herbert's grandfather, other pedigrees and records list Peter as his father, and dates of birth seem to bear that out. Some records call him Herbert of Winchester and list his death as 1129 in Winchester, Hampshire, England. Other records also call his grandson, Herbert FitzHenry [Herbert FitzHerbert I], Herbert of Winchester. Some records apparently confuse this Herbert with Herbert IV, Count of Vermandois, but they are likely in error as Herbert IV is actually his uncle, the brother of Peter. This likely mix up causes various records to list his birth as somewhere between 1045 and 1070, with the earliest date likely being the most correct (as he had to have been an adult in 1066), and they all list his birth as somewhere in Vermandois, Normandy, France (Vermandois, Aisne, Picardy, France).
  
  The book A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland states the following: "Herbert, styled Count of Vermandois, who came over at the Conquest, with the first William, and filled the office of Chamberlain to the second (William Rufus). He is mentioned in the Battle Abbey Roll, and was rewarded by a grant of lands in Hampshire. His wife was Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror, and by that lady left a son and heir, Herbert Fitz-Herbert, called Herbert of Winchester, Chamberlain and Treasurer to King Henry I, and the first of his family born in England."
  
  It is noted, however, that Herbert was not Count of Vermandois, rather his uncle Herbert IV was the Count of Vermandois. It is also noted that Herbert FitzHerbert, listed as the son of Herbert, is actually the grandson of Herbert and son of Henry FitzHerbert, and as such, Emma, could not have been his mother.
  
  A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland states: "This very ancient family, from which the chivalrous house of Herbert and other eminent houses sprang, derived originally from Herbert, styled Count of Vermandois, who came over at the Conquest with the first William, and filled the office of Chamberlain to the second, (William Rufus)...."
  
  The job of Chamberlain, held by Herbert, was an official who managed the household of a sovereign or nobleman. Today such a person might be considered the Chief of Staff. Herbert was Chamberlain to William the Conqueror (King William I) and William Rufus, also known as King William II, son of William the Conqueror. He appears to have also been the Chamberlain for a time to William II's brother, King Henry I, and may have been succeeded as Chamberlain to Henry I by his grandson Herbert [Herbert FitzHerbert I aka Herbert FitzHenry], who was Chamberlain to Henry I’s successor, King Stephen. Some pedigrees and records report Herbert "held lands in Hampshire in 1086, and afterwards held other lands in Bedfordshire, Hampshire, Gloucester and Yorkshire....Herbert was evidently part of a conspiracy to overthrow Henry I in 1118 and was dismissed [from the office of Chamberlain] and Sugar of St Denis indicates that he was treated with mercy and was only castrated and blinded!"
  
  Some additional information follows: “Herbert was probably dead by 1129–1130, when the Pipe Roll of 1130 records his son as owing a fine for the inheritance of his father's lands, a fine totaling over 353 marks, perhaps as much as 500. However, there is no certain record of Herbert after 1111, and it is possible that he should be considered the same person as ‘H. the Chamberlain’, who Abbot Sugar of St Denis named as an attempted assassin of Henry I in 1118, and who was punished by the king for the attempt. Sugar stated that the would-be-assassin was a chamberlain whose name began with ‘H’, and who had been close to the king and received great rewards from the king. Sugar added that the king only blinded and castrated the man, which the abbot considered to be mild compared with the hanging that the man deserved. William of Malmesbury does not name the assassin either, but relates that he had custody of the royal treasury. The historian C. Warren Hollister first made the identification between ‘H.’ and Herbert, noting that there was only one chamberlain in King Henry I's reign who had a name beginning with ‘H’. The main argument against the identification is the fact that most records considered that Herbert remained in office until close to 1129 or 1130. However, charter evidence supports the inheritance of Herbert's lands by his son before 1121.”
  
  Herbert of Vermandois, also known as Herbertus Camerarius [Herbert the Chamberlain] was most likely the son of Peter of Vermandois, brother of Herbert IV, Count of Vermandois, both of whom were sons of Otto, Count of Vermandois (also known as Odo, Otho, Eudo).
  
  A pedigree published in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159, documents the first eleven generations of the John Pidding Jones line in England and Wales following the conquest of England by William the Conqueror in 1066. An explanation of that pedigree follows. It begins with Herbert [Herbertus Camerarius]; followed by his son Henry FitzHerbert [Henrici Tresaurij]; followed by his son Herbert FitzHenry [Herbert FitzHerbert I or Herbert of Winchester]; followed by his son Herbert FitzHerbert [Herbert FitzHerbert II]; followed by his son Peter FitzHerbert; followed by his son Reginald FitzPeter; followed by his son Peter FitzReginald; followed by his son Herbert FitzPeter, Lord of Llanllowel; followed by his son Adam FitzHerbert, Lord of Llanllowel; followed in the so-called “B” line by his son Jenkin ab Adam [Jenkin ab Adam, alias Herbert]; followed by his son Gwillim ab Jenkin [Gwillim ab Jenkin, alias Herbert]; followed by his son Thomas ab Gwillim [Thomas ab Gwillim ab Jenkin, alias Herbert]. It is noted that Thomas ab Gwillim was the fourth son of Gwillim ab Jenkin. The John Pidding Jones line descends from Gwillim ab Jenkin through Howell ab Gwillim, the third son of Gwillim ab Jenkin. Thus, the pedigree does not follow the John Pidding Jones line after Gwillim ab Jenkin [son: Howell ab Gwillim], but rather the line of Thomas ab Gwillim.
  
  See also the "Revised History of John Pidding Jones and Margaret Lee Jones" (published 2015 by Michael Norman Grimshaw, Ph.D.), pages 68-73.
  
  === Please read these alert notes before making changes to Henry FitzHerbert (Henry the Treasurer). ===
  Please read these alert notes before making changes to Henry FitzHerbert (Henry the Treasurer).
  
  === https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=&nom_conjoint=&prenom=Herbert+of+Vermandois,+aka+Herbert+the+Chamberlain+and+Herbertus+Camerarius&prenom_conjoint=Emma+de+Blois&prenom_conjoint_operateur=or&prenom_operateur=or&utm_campaign=search&utm_medi ===
  (1) TCP (Pembroke, vol X page 400 note b) reports: "A spurious pedigree from Herbert the Chamberlain (of Henry I), who is given an equally false descent from Herbert, Count of Vermandois, is set forth by Nicholas, Counties and County Families of Wales, vol ii, pp. 776-77." This not only throws doubt on the descent to Sir William ap Thomas (ap Gwilym ap Jenkin) of Raglan Castle (shown on 'Herbert02' to be father of William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke) but also throws doubt on the fact that the father of the first Chamberlain Herbert is reported by BE1883 to have been Peter de Vermandois , brother of Herbert, Count of Vermandois. (2) BE1883 splits the origins of this family between two articles: one on Fitz-Herbert, the other on Herbert. The way that they are worded indicates that Herbert (Chamberlain to King Henry II) was brother to Piers FitzHerbert rather than his father. The picture is further confused by a looseness in the wording of BLG1886 (Herbert of Llanarth) which leaves it open to question as to the number of generations involved. Fortunately, TCP (FitzReynold) provides enough clarity to give some comfort that the following is reasonably secure, at least for the line to the Lords FitzReynold.
  Herbert, Lord Chamberlain (a 1066, Chamberlain for King William Rufus 1087-1100)
  m. Emma de Blois (dau of Etienne (Stephen Henry), Count de Blois, Chartres, etcIndividual:
  - Mark Willis Ballard (gedcom) - compiled by Mark Willis Ballard [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE\,], "Mark Willis Ballard (gedcom, rootsweb)," supplied by Ballard, 2013. - compiled by Mark Willis Ballard [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE\,], "Mark Willis Ballard (gedcom, rootsweb)," supplied by Ballard, 2013. - compiled by Mark Willis Ballard [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE\,]. "Mark Willis Ballard (gedcom, rootsweb)," supplied by Ballard, 2013. - 0 - Footnote - compiled by Mark Willis Ballard [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE\,], "Mark Willis Ballard (gedcom, rootsweb)," supplied by Ballard, 2013. - ShortFootnote - compiled by Mark Willis Ballard [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE\,], "Mark Willis Ballard (gedcom, rootsweb)," supplied by Ballard, 2013. - Bibliography - compiled by Mark Willis Ballard [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE\,]. "Mark Willis Ballard (gedcom, rootsweb)," supplied by Ballard, 2013.2 _TMPLT - Page
  - bright.ged - Brower, Maitland Dirk, bright.ged - Brower, Maitland Dirk, bright.ged - Brower, Maitland Dirk. bright.ged. - 0 - Footnote - Brower, Maitland Dirk, bright.ged - ShortFootnote - Brower, Maitland Dirk, bright.ged - Bibliography - Brower, Maitland Dirk. bright.ged.2 _TMPLT - Page
  
  === Some background information explaining the connection between Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) and his grandson, Herbert Fitz Henry, the Chamberlain of Winchester ===
  Considerable misinformation and even some erroneous information are found in many records concerning Herbert the Chamberlain who accompanied William the Conqueror to England in 1066. The following discussion is an attempt to clarify some of that misinformation.
  
  The "Domeday Book" of William the Conqueror (1086) records Herbert's name as Herbertus Camerari (Camerarius) [Herbert the Chamberlain] and lists lands he was given by the Conqueror. The “Domesday Book” also listed Herbert’s son Henry, called Henruus Thesaurari (Henry the Treasurer) [Henry FitzHerbert] and lists lands that Henry held in 1086.
  
  The Battle Abbey Roll states: “Herbertus Regis Camerarius, the ancestor of all the Herberts, was Chamberlain in fee to Henry I, two of whose charters he attests at Winsor in 1101…He died “not long before 1130”, and left, according to Eyton, three sons: 1. Herbert Fitz Herbert; 2. Stephen Fitz Herbert; and 3. William Fitz Herbert, Archbishop of York in 1143…” [It is noted, however, that this record in the Battle Abbey Roll is missing Herbert’s son Henry [Henry the Treasurer], the likely father of the three listed sons, but the grandson Herbert Fitz Herbert did succeed Herbertus Camerarius as Chamberlain and also succeeded Henry as Treasurer.]
  
  British History Online in a Survey of Winchester (about 1103-1115) names Herbert the Chamberlain among others who were landlords of the burgesses. [It is noted that the time frame is during the reign of King Henry I and before Herbert the Chamberlain was removed from his office as Chamberlain in 1118.]
  
  Herbertus Camerarius is reported in a number of records as married to Emma, illegitimate daughter of Stephen (Etienne), Earl (Count) of Blois. However, this seems highly questionable from the dates of birth as there is more than 65 years between the dates of Herbert’s and Emma’s births. It is quite likely that Emma was married to Herbert’s grandson, also named Herbert [Herbert FitzHenry, if Henry is not missing in the record , or Herbert FitzHerbert if Henry is missing].
  
  A footnote in the "Family of Herbert" in the Archaeologia Cambrensis states the following: "The wife of Herbert the Chamberlain is stated to have been Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror. If such a marriage took place, she must have been his second wife, and certainly not the mother of Henry, son of Herbert, which birth must have occurred before any grand-daughter of the Conqueror was of age to be marriageable,--at any rate to be the mother of children."
  
  It is noted that Stephen [Etienne], the father of Emma, was married to Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror, but most records list Emma as an illegitimate daughter of Stephen and not the daughter of Adela.
  
  Concerning Herbertus Camerarius, Burke's Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire makes the following comments: "The house of Herbert deduces from Peter Fitzreginald...derived from Herbert Fitzherbert, son of Herbert, Chamberlain to William Rufus, and grandson of Peter, stated to have been the brother of Herbert, Count of Vermandois, and son of Otho, Count of Vermandois, 7th in descent, through the Counts of Vermandois and Kings of Italy and Lombardy, from Pepin, King of Italy and Lomabardy, who d. A.D. 810, youngest son of Charlemagne, Emperor of the West." [However, it is noted from the dates of birth of Peter of Vermandois and Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), that Peter must have been the father and not the grandfather of Herbert. It is also noted that Herbert FitzHerbert is not the son of Herbert the Chamberlain, but rather the grandson as he is the son of Henry FitzHerbert (Henry the Treasurer), son of Herbert].
  
  The Annuals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales states: "This very ancient family derive from Herbert (great grandson of Herbert, Count of Vermandois, lineal descendant of Charlemagne) who came to England with William the Conqueror."
  
  This would indicate that Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) was of the house of Vermandois in Northern France (Normandy) and he, himself, was part of the Norman invasion of England under William the Conqueror in 1066. Although Burke's Genealogical History lists Peter of Vermandois as Herbert's grandfather, other records, particularly private records, list Peter as his father, and, as noted above, dates of birth seem to bear that out. Some records refer to Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) as Herbert of Winchester and list his death as 1129 in Winchester, Hampshire, England. Other records call his grandson Herbert FitzHenry and Herbert FitzHerbert I, if the records are missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer, and also Herbert of Winchester. Some records apparently confuse this Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) with Herbert IV, Count of Vermandois, but they are likely in error as Herbert IV is actually his uncle, the brother of Peter of Vermandois. This likely mix up causes various records to list Herbert’s birth as somewhere between 1045 and 1070, with the earliest date likely being the most nearly correct since he had to have been an adult by 1066 when he accompanied William the Conqueror to England as his Chamberlain. Records all list his birth as somewhere in Vermandois, Normandy, France (Vermandois, Aisne, Picardy, France).
  
  Burke’s "A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland" states the following: "Herbert, styled Count of Vermandois, who came over at the Conquest, with the first William, and filled the office of Chamberlain to the second (William Rufus). He is mentioned in the Battle Abbey Roll, and was rewarded by a grant of lands in Hampshire. His wife was Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror, and by that lady left a son and heir, Herbert Fitz-Herbert, called Herbert of Winchester, Chamberlain and Treasurer to King Henry I, and the first of his family born in England." [It is noted, however, that Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) was not Count of Vermandois, rather his uncle Herbert IV was the Count of Vermandois. It is also noted that Herbert FitzHerbert, listed as the son of Herbert, is actually the grandson of Herbert and son of Henry FitzHerbert, and as such, as previously noted, Emma, could not have been his mother, but quite likely the second Herbert’s wife.]
  
  Burke’s “A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland” states: "This very ancient family, from which the chivalrous house of Herbert and other eminent houses sprang, derived originally from Herbert, styled Count of Vermandois, who came over at the Conquest with the first William, and filled the office of Chamberlain to the second, (William Rufus)…"
  
  Burke’s “A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland” states: “The family of Fitz-Herbert, whose name appears on the Roll of Battle Abbey, descends from a Norman knight, Herbert, whose son, called “filius Herberti”, and “fils or Fitz-Herbert”, gave, in conformity with a prevalent custom amongst the Normans, a patronymic to the family…”
  
  The “Liber Niger” [See document in Latin] names “Herbert (Herebertus), son of Herbertus Camerarius (Hereberti Camerarii) senior…” [Again, however, it is noted that the second Herbert is the grandson of Herbertus Camerarius, not his son as the first Herberts’ son Henry, father of the second Herbert, is missing from the record.]
  
  Two entries in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy confirm that Herbert FitzHenry is the son of Henry FitzHerbert (Henry the Treasurer).
  
  In is noted that the position of Chamberlain, at that time held by Herbert, was an official who managed the household of a sovereign or nobleman. Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) was Chamberlain to William the Conqueror, (William I) and to William Rufus, also known as King William II, son of William the Conqueror. He appears to have also been the Chamberlain for a time to William II's brother, King Henry I, until about 1118 and likely was succeeded as Chamberlain to Henry I and King Stephen by his grandson Herbert.
  
  Some records report Herbert "held lands in Hampshire in 1086, and afterwards held other lands in Bedfordshire, Hampshire, Gloucester and Yorkshire.... Herbert was evidently part of a conspiracy to overthrow Henry I in 1118 and was dismissed [from office of Chamberlain] and (Sugar of St Denis indicates) that he was treated with mercy and was only castrated and blinded!"
  
  https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertFitzHerbertdied1204B
  
  === Some background information concerning Henry FitzHerbert (also referred to as Henry the Tresurer and Henrici Thesaurij) ===
  A great many historical records are missing the generation of the son of Herbert of Vermandois, named Henry FitzHerbert and referred to as Henry the Treasurer. The "Family of Herbert" in the Archaeologia Cambrensis states: "Henry the Treasurer, son of Herbert, died in or prior to the fifth year of King Stephen's reign, A.D. 1140; for in that year his son Herbert, and grandson Herbert, paid pounds 354 in silver, for livery of the lands of which Henry son of Herbert, their ancestor, had died seised."
  
  A footnote in the Archaeologia Cambrensis article states the following: "The wife of Herbert the Chamberlain is stated to have been Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror. If such marriage took place, she must have been his second wife, and certainly not the mother of Henry, son of Herbert, which birth must have occurred before any grand-daughter of the Conqueror was of age to be marriageable, - at any rate to be the mother of children.”
  ~Joseph Morris. Family of Herbert. Archaeologia Cambrensis, Vol. IV, Third Series.
  
  Additional information identifying Henry the Treasurer follows. "The Herbert family claimed descent from 'Herbertus Camerarius,' a companion of William I, and his son 'Henry Thesaurarius,' both of whom were tenants in capite in Hampshire. The descendants of Henry Thesaurarius in the fifteenth-century claimed that he was 'son natural of King Henry the First,' and that they were thus connected with 'the Royal Blood of the Crown of England,' but the pretension contradicts established fact. Peter, the great-grandson of Henry Thesaurarius, seems to have been the first of the family to settle in Wales. He received from John in 1210 many grants of land there forfeited by William of Braose, Peter's descendants by intermarriages with Welsh heiresses acquired very large estates in South-east Wales, and practically became Welshmen...."
  ~http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/williamherbert.
  
  Many records list Henry's birth as about 1071, if they list a date of birth at all. Emma, the alleged wife of Henry's father Herbert is often listed as born about 1073 to 1088. Therefore, Emma could not have been the mother of Henry. In addition, if Henry was old enough to hold the office of Treasurer in 1086, as recorded in the Domesday Book, he most likely must have been born by 1065 or before, meaning that he was likely born in France before the invasion of England in 1066.
  
  Many records list Henry's wife as Sybil Corbet, daughter of Robert Corbet. However, the "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis states her name is Julia or Juliana. A great many records also list Sybil Corbert as the wife of Henry's son Herbert, which, if that were the case, would mean a father and son both married daughters of Robert Corbet, something that is highly unlikely. Herbert, Henry's son, who should be named Herbert FitzHenry, is often called Herbert FitzHerbert and Herbert of Winchester. Henry and Sybil (Julia) are reported in some pedigrees to have married about 1111, but that appears to be a little late as their son, Herbert, was born before 1106.
  
  A pedigree published in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159, documents the first eleven generations of the John Pidding Jones line in England and Wales following the conquest of England by William the Conqueror in 1066. An explanation of that pedigree follows. It begins with Herbert [Herbertus Camerarius]; followed by his son Henry FitzHerbert [Henrici Tresaurij]; followed by his son Herbert FitzHenry [Herbert FitzHerbert I or Herbert of Winchester]; followed by his son Herbert FitzHerbert [Herbert FitzHerbert II]; followed by his son Peter FitzHerbert; followed by his son Reginald FitzPeter; followed by his son Peter FitzReginald; followed by his son Herbert FitzPeter, Lord of Llanllowel; followed by his son Adam FitzHerbert, Lord of Llanllowel; followed in the so-called “B” line by his son Jenkin ab Adam [Jenkin ab Adam, alias Herbert]; followed by his son Gwillim ab Jenkin [Gwillim ab Jenkin, alias Herbert]; followed by his son Thomas ab Gwillim [Thomas ab Gwillim ab Jenkin, alias Herbert]. It is noted that Thomas ab Gwillim was the fourth son of Gwillim ab Jenkin. The John Pidding Jones line descends from Gwillim ab Jenkin through Howell ab Gwillim, the third son of Gwillim ab Jenkin. Thus, the pedigree does not follow the John Pidding Jones line after Gwillim ab Jenkin [son: Howell ab Gwillim], but rather the line of Thomas ab Gwillim.
  
  Henry FitzHerbert [Henrici Tresaurij] was the son of Herbert of Vermandois, who accompanied William the Conqueror to England in 1066. The Domeday Book of William the Conqueror (1086) records Herbert's name as Herbertus Camerarius [Herbert the Chamberlain]. The Domesday Book records Henry's name as Henrici Thesaurij (Henry the Treasurer)
  
  See also the "Revised History of John Pidding Jones and Margaret Lee Jones" (published 2015 by Michael Norman Grimshaw, Ph.D.), pages 68-73.
  
  === Wikiwand (-excerpt) ===
  ...I think you are relying too much on Clay - who is much older than the sources used in this article. Keats-Rohan Domesday Descendants p. 199 has "Cameraius, Herbert II son of Herbert fitz Alberic and brother of William archbiship of York. He was given in marriage Milisendis, grand-daughter and heiress of Osbert the sherif of Lincolnshire, by Henry I. Around 1156 he became chamberlain to David King of Scots." Keats-Rohan also in Domesday People p. 250 "Herbert Filius Alberici Domesday tenatnt of the archbishop of York; identifiable from Lindsey Survey 16.4. Father of Herbert camerarius (regis Scotiae) and William archbishop of York." Burton's Oxford Dictionary of National Biography article on William fitzHerbert states "His [William fitzHerbert] father, Herbert of Winchester, has traditionally been identified as the illegitimate son of Herbert (II), count of Maine, and his mother as Emma, illegitimate daughter of Stephen, count of Blois, and thus half-sister of King Stephen. However these identifications appear to be late additions to his genealogy. Herbert's parents are unknown, and there is evidence that his wife was not a member of the house of Blois but rather the daughter of Hunger fitz Odin, Domesday tenant of Broad Windsor, Dorset. Domesday Book shows Herbert to have been a Hampshire landowner, of local significance only. Under William II he was chamberlain of the Winchester treasury and after c.1100 combined the office with that of treasurer. It has been traditional to place Herbert's death in 1129 or 1130, when the pipe roll records his son, Herbert, paying a relief for his father's lands. However, there is no definite record of Herbert after 1111, and a convincing case can be made for his identification with ‘H. the Chamberlain’ whom Suger of St Denis named as the would-be assassin of Henry I in 1118, mutilated by Henry in punishment." Norton in his biography of William of York is clear that Herbert fitz Alberic is the same person as Herbert the Chamberlain.Ealdgyth - Talk 19:33, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
  
  === Life Sketch ===
  For some reason the Life sketch is frozen (not able to edit) -the information is a mixture facts pertaining to Herbert FitzHenry, the Chamberlain to William the Conqueror and William the II, and his son Herbert FitzHerbert, Chamberlain to William II and Henry I.
  The father was part of the invasion force and the son,, who was 5 years old at the time did not fight in any battles.....
  
  === {{British Isles 742-1499}} ===
  {{British Isles 742-1499}}
  === '''UNKNOWN/UNPROVEN ANCESTRY -- DO NOT ATTACH ANY PARENTS! (OCTOBER 2014)''' ===
  
  == Biography ==
  Per Wikipedia:
  "Herbert of Winchester (sometimes Herbert fitzAlberic)[1] was an Anglo-Norman nobleman during the period following the Norman conquest of England.
  "Herbert held land as an under-tenant of the Archbishop of York in theDomesday Survey of 1089.[2] He held the office of chamberlain of the Winchester treasury during the reign of King William II of England,[3]and the office of chancellor and treasurer under King Henry I.[4] During William II's reign, Herbert became a tenant-in-chief, holding lands directly from the king. Herbert may have been a member of the clergy, although it is known that he was married.[5]
  "Most sources state that Herbert married Emma, half-sister of King Stephen and Henry of Blois, Bishop of Winchester,[6] and that she was an illegitimate daughter of Stephen II, Count of Blois, Stephen's father.[7] New research, however, suggests that Emma might have been a daughter of Hunger fitz Odin, who held lands in Dorset in the Domesday survey.[3][8]
  "Herbert was probably dead by 1129–1130, when the Pipe Roll of 1130 records his son as owing a fine for the inheritance of his father's lands,[3] a fine totalling over 353 marks, perhaps as much as 500.[5] However, there is no certain record of Herbert after 1111, and it is possible that he should be considered the same person as "H. the Chamberlain", who Abbot Suger of St Denis named as an attempted assassin of Henry I in 1118, and who was punished by the king for the attempt.[3] Suger stated that the would-be-assassin was a chamberlain whose name began with "H", and who had been close to the king and received great rewards from the king. Suger added that the king only blinded and castrated the man, which the abbot considered to be mild compared with the hanging that the man deserved. William of Malmesbury does not name the assassin either, but relates that he had custody of the royal treasury.The historian C. Warren Hollister first made the identification between "H." and Herbert, noting that there was only one chamberlain in King Henry I's reign who had a name beginning with "H". The main argumentagainst the identification is the fact that most records considered that Herbert remained in office until close to 1129 or 1130. However, charter evidence supports the inheritance of Herbert's lands by his sonbefore 1121.[9]
  "Herbert was the father of Herbert and William. William later became Archbishop of York."
  
  -----"This very ancient family from which the chivalrous house of Herbert and other eminent houses sprang, derived originally in England from Herbert, styled Count of Vermandois, who came over at the Conquest with the first William and filled the office of Chamberlain to William Rufus. He was great-grandson of Herbert, Comte de Vermandois, the lineal descendant of Charlemagne. Herbert is mentioned in the Battel Abbey Rolland was rewarded by a grant of lands in Hampshire. His wife was Emma,daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William theConqueror, and by that lady left a son and heir, Herbert Fitz-Herbert." [John Burke, History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland,Vol. IV, R. Bentley, London, 1834, p. 728, Jones, of Llanarth] (Source: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jweber&id=I05393)
  
  ==Sources==
  
  * '''"Royal Ancestry" Douglas Richardson, 2013, Vol. II. p. 619'''Herbert Of Winchester (also styled Herbert The Chamberlain), Chamberlain and Treasurer under Kings William II and Henry I. He married Emma ______, allegedly an illegitimate daughter of Etienne Henri, Count of Blois, and half-sister to Stephen, King of England. They had two sons,Herbert and [Saint] William [Archbishop of York], and two daughters, _____ (wife of Robert de Venuiz) and ____ (wife of William Croc). SirHerbert Of Winchester was living in 1111, when he was a member of theMichelmas treasury court at Winchester. He probably died in 1118/20.
  
  == References ==
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_of_Winchester
  http://www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Person/48434175/20358341078
  
  == Acknowledgements ==This page has been edited according to [http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Acknowledgements Style Standards] adopted January 2014. Descriptions ofimported gedcoms for this profile are under the Changes tab.
  
  === Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ===
  HERBERT FitzHenry, son of HENRY & his wife --- (-[1129/30]). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. [Domesday Book records land held by “Herbert the Chamberlain” in Rhode and Selborne in Neatham Hundred, Soberton in Meonstoke Hundred in Hampshire[522].
  
  It is not known whether these entries relate to the future chamberlain of King Henry I. Chamberlain of Henry I King of England from 1101. "…Herbertus regis camerarius…" subscribed a charter dated Sep 1101 under which Bishop Herbert donated property to Norwich priory[523].
  
  The Hyde Register lists "Herbertus camerarius, Arnulfus filius eius, Emma uxor eius" immediately after the names of King Henry I and his first wife[524].
  
  An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…"[525].
  
  The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Herb Camer" in Bedfordshire and Warwickshire[526]. As his son appears in the same source holding lands of his father, it is assumed that Herbert FitzHenry died during the course of that year.
  
  m EMMA, daughter of ---. The Hyde Register lists "Herbertus camerarius, Arnulfus filius eius, Emma uxor eius" immediately after the names of King Henry I and his first wife[527].
  
  Secondary sources state that she was Emma de Blois, illegitimate daughter of Etienne Comte de Blois & his mistress ---. This is presumably based on the Chronicle of Meaux, in Yorkshire, which names "comitis --- Herberti filius, ex Emma sorore regis Anglorum Stephani progenitus"[528]. As this source is dated to [1394/1400], it is unlikely to be conclusive in relation to events which occurred 250 years earlier in the absence of other corroborative evidence.
  
  Eyton includes no reference to any wife of Herbert FitzHenry in his article on the barony of FitzHerbert[529]. Until further evidence comes to light, it is suggested that the information be considered with caution. If it is correct, the chronology of the FitzHerbert family dictates that Emma must have been born while her supposed father was still young, maybe even before his marriage to Adela of England in 1080.
  
  === Remainder of Lifesketch ===
  "…Hereberto filio Hereberti…" subscribed a charter of Renaud Earl of Cornwall which names "matertere mee Aliz Corbet"[156]. m ([1115/25]) SIBYL Corbet Lady of Alcester and Pontesbury, formerly mistress of HENRY I King of England, daughter of ROBERT Corbet of Alcester, co Warwick & his wife --- ([1090/95]-after 1157).
  
  The Complete Peerage deduces her parentage, relationship with King Henry, and her subsequent marriage from a charter, dated to [1163/75], of her son "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" by which he granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage, witnessed by "Nicholao filio meo…Herberto filio Herberti, Baldwino et Ricardo nepotibus meis, Willelmo de Vernun, Willielmo fratre meo…Hugone de Dunstanvill…"[157]. The [1125/35] birth date range estimated for her son Herbert, born from this marriage, suggests that she married after her relationship with the king. The Pipe Roll of 1157 records a payment to "the mother of Earl Reginald" from an estate at Mienes, Sussex[158]. Herbert & his wife had [four] children: [4]
  ROBERT FitzHerbert (-before 1165). Henry II King of England restored properties of "Roberto filio Hereberti Camerarii", held by "pater suus vel avus suus", by charter dated to [Feb/Mar] 1155, witnessed by "…Rainaldo comite Cornubie…Johanne Marescallo"[159]. Chamberlain of King Henry II. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Robertus filius Herberti v m ii milites et dimidium" in Wiltshire in [1160/61] and [1161/62][160].[4]
  HERBERT FitzHerbert [II] ([1125/35]-before 18 Jul 1204). “Willelmus filius Hugonis de Bridssale” donated property “de feudo Herberti filii Herberti” to Watton convent by charter dated to [1175/95][161]. His birth date range is estimated based on the latest birth date of his wife, bearing in mind the probable date of birth of his half-brother Renaud Earl of Cornwall and his own date of death.[4]
  HENRY FitzHerbert (-after 1171). The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Henricus filius Herberti v m ii milites et dimidium" in Wiltshire in [1160/61][162]. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Henricus filius Herberti xx s" in Wiltshire in [1171/72][163].[4]
  [WILLIAM (-after 1187). "…Herberto filio Herberti…Willielmo fratre meo…" subscribed the charter, dated to [1163/75], under which "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage[164]. Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Willelmus frater comitis Reginaldi" held half of one knight´s fee from "Roberti filii Regis" in Devon[165]. Benedict of Peterborough records that Henry II King of England granted the kingdom of Limerick to "Hereberti filio Hereberti, et Willelmo fratri comitis Reginaldi, et Joellano de la Pumerai nepoti eorum" at a council in Oxford in May 1177, but that "Herbertus et Willelmus, fratres Reginaldi comitis Cornubiæ, et Joellanus de Pumeria nepos eorum" declined it at a council at Marlborough 3 Jun 1177[166]. None of the primary sources so far consulted conclusively indicates whether William was the full brother of Earl Renaud or his half-brother by their mother´s marriage to Herbert FitzHerbert. However, the order in which the individuals are named in the documents quoted above suggests that William was younger.
  
  === Please read these alert notes before making changes to Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius). ===
  Please read these alert notes before making changes to Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius).
  
  === Some background information concerning Herbert FitzHenry (also called Herbert FitzHerbert I and Herbert of Winchester) ===
  There exists considerable confusion in many records concerning Herbert FitzHenry, who is also called Herbert FitzHerbert I and Herbert of Winchester. Some FamilySearch.org and Ancestry.com records list Herbert FitzHenry as Herbert FitzHerbert and list his birth as between 1087 and 1106, but he was an adult before 1127 and succeeded to his father's lands in 1140. The date of 1087 appears to be fairly logical as his father, Henry FitzHerbert (also called Henry the Treasurer), was likely born before 1065 before the Conquest of England as he was an adult before 1087 when he appears in the Domesday Book as Henry the Treasurer. Many records also seem to confuse this Herbert with his son Herbert FitzHerbert and that appears to come about because he is called both Herbert FitzHenry and Herbert FitzHerbert. However, many pedigrees list two Herbert FitzHerberts, father and son, and given the dates, there most probably had to be two generations with the name Herbert FitzHerbert. Herbert I (Herbert FitzHenry) was certainly born sometime before 1106, and reportedly married to Sybil Corbet (or possibly Adela or Lucy [Lucia] Corbet). However, his father, Henry, was the person actually married to Sybil or Julia (or Juliana) Corbet as recorded in the article "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis [see copy in the Memories section]. Herbert I was married to a lady named Sibilla (last name not given), according to Archaeologia Cambrensis. Herbert II was born about 1130 or later and married to Lucy FitzWalter (Lucy of Gloucester). Some records list Herbert I as born in Blaen Llyfni, Brecknockshire, Wales (the place where he died), but other records list his birth as Winchester, Hampshire, England, which is likely where his father and grandfather had lived and died and is likely the correct place of Herbert's birth.
  
  The book "John Pidding Jones His Ancestors and Descendants" and Burke's "Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire" both list only one Herbert FitzHerbert and some records list his birth as about 1115, exactly in the middle of the birth dates of the father and son Herbert FitzHerbert. However, if Herbert FitzHerbert (Herbert FitzHenry) was born about 1115, his father would have been about 50 years of age and his mother would have been over 40 years old. Therefore, Herbert I was most likely born between 1085 and 1106, and Herbert II was born about 1130/1136.
  
  Herbert I is referred to in some records as Herbert of Winchester, a name also at times associated with his grandfather, Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) who died in Winchester. Herbert I was reportedly the first of his family to be born in England, so the name Herbert of Winchester is applicable. Some records refer to Herbert I as Chamberlain to King Henry I, but that would only have been possible if he succeeded his grandfather in that position, something that could have occurred as his grandfather was reportedly dismissed as Chamberlain in 1118. Herbert I was also the Chamberlain to Henry I's successor, King Stephen, grandson of William the Conqueror.
  
  The book "Annuals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales" states: "Herbert, called of Winchester, was Chamberlain and Treasurer to Henry I." If that is a case, Herbert I would have succeeded his grandfather [Herbertus Camerarius] as Chamberlain and his father, Henry, as Treasurer.
  
  The book "A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire" by Sir Bernard Burke, 1866, notes the following: "In the 5th year of King Stephen [1140], Herbert FitzHerbert [Herbert FitzHenry], then lord chamberlain to that monarch, gave pounds 333 in silver for the livery of his father's lands. This Herbert m. 1st the dau. and co-heiress of Robert Corbet, Lord of Alcester, Co. Warwick, who had been some time concubine to King Henry I. He m. 2ndly, Lucy, 3rd dau. and co-heir of Milo, Earl of Hereford, and had by her three sons, Reginald who d. s. p.; Peter, his successor; and Mathew, sheriff of Sussex, 12th John." It is noted, however, that the first marriage listed above is actually the marriage of his father Henry to Sybil (Julia) Corbet, daughter of Robert Corbet, and the second marriage would not have been a marriage to Herbert I, but rather to his son Herbert II. This mistake likely occurred because the generation of Herbert I (Herbert FitzHenry) is missing from Burke's book.
  
  The "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis has this missing generation and also notes the following: "Henry the Treasurer [Henry Thesaurij or Thesaurarius], son of Herbert [Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius)], died in or prior to the fifth year of King Stephen's reign, A.D. 1140; for in that year his son Herbert [Herbert FitzHenry -- Herbert I], and grandson Herbert [Herbert FitzHerbert -- Herbert II], paid pounds 354 in silver, for livery of the lands of which Henry son of Herbert [Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius)], their ancestor, had died seised." It is noted that here are the first four generations of this line listed from the time of the Conquest in 1066 [Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius), Henry FitzHerbert (Henry the Treasurer), Herbert FitzHenry (Herbert FitzHerbert I), and Herbert FitzHerbert (Herbert FitzHerbert II)], one of which is missing in Burke's book [Herbert FitzHenry]. It is also noted that the price paid for the lands, 354 pounds in silver, differs from Burke's 333 pounds. In the Archaeologia Cambrensis the amount is listed in Roman Numerals: CCCLIIII (354).
  
  Herbert FitzHerbert I [Herbert FitzHenry] is referred to in some records as the Lord of Bladen.
  
  The "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis also states the following: "Herbert, son of Henry Fitz-Herbert, was Chamberlain to King Stephen, and also filled the offices of Chamberlain and Treasurer to King Henry II. He was sometimes called Herbert Fitz-Herbert, and sometimes Herbert of Winchester, doubtless deriving the latter appellation from the original family estates being situate in Hampshire....By his wife, Sibilla, he had three sons, Herbert, Stephen, and William."
  
  However, there are some records which list Emma de Blois as the wife of Herbert FitzHenry [grandson of Herbert of Vermandois and son of Henry FitzHerbert]. Such records list the births of Emma and Herbert FitzHenry as about 1084. Whatever the dates of birth, Emma and Herbert FitzHenry would have been near the same age and, therefore, quite possibly the married couple, rather than Emma being married to Herbert of Vermandois [Herbertus Camerarius, the grandfather] as reported in some records. If Emma was actually married to Herbert FitzHenry [Herbert FitzHerbert I] and not Herbert of Vermandois, she could, indeed, have been the mother of Herbert FitzHerbert II.
  
  A footnote in the "Family of Herbert" article in the Archaeologia Cambrensis states the following: "The wife of Herbert the Chamberlain [Herbertus Camerarius] is stated to have been Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror. If such a marriage took place, she must have been his second wife, and certainly not the mother of Henry, son of Herbert, which birth must have occurred before any grand-daughter of the Conqueror was of age to be marriageable, -- at any rate to be the mother of children."
  
  The above information should help clarify some of the discrepancies that seem to exist in many records concerning the first four generations of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius), who accompanied William the Conqueror to England in 1066 as his Chamberlain.
  
  === Wikipedia - Henry of Winchester ===
  Herbert of Winchester (sometimes Herbert fitzAlberic)[1] was an Anglo-Norman nobleman during the period following the Norman conquest of England.
  
  Herbert held land as an under-tenant of the Archbishop of York in the Domesday Survey of 1089.[2] He held the office of chamberlain of the Winchester treasury during the reign of King William II of England,[3] and the office of chancellor and treasurer under King Henry I.[4] During William II's reign, Herbert became a tenant-in-chief, holding lands directly from the king. Herbert may have been a member of the clergy, although it is known that he was married.[5]
  
  Most sources state that Herbert married Emma, half-sister of King Stephen and Henry of Blois, Bishop of Winchester,[6] and that she was an illegitimate daughter of Stephen II, Count of Blois, Stephen's father.[7] New research, however, suggests that Emma might have been a daughter of Hunger fitzOdin, who held lands in Dorset in the Domesday survey.[3][8]
  
  Herbert was the father of Herbert and William. William later became Archbishop of York.[2] The younger Herbert became chamberlain to King David I of Scotland around 1156.[1]
  
  Herbert was probably dead by 1129–1130, when the Pipe Roll of 1130 records his son as owing a fine for the inheritance of his father's lands,[3] a fine totalling over 353 marks, perhaps as much as 500.[5] However, there is no certain record of Herbert after 1111, and it is possible that he should be considered the same person as "H. the Chamberlain", who Abbot Suger of St Denis named as an attempted assassin of Henry I in 1118, and who was punished by the king for the attempt.[3] Suger stated that the would-be-assassin was a chamberlain whose name began with "H", and who had been close to the king and received great rewards from the king. Suger added that the king only blinded and castrated the man, which the abbot considered to be mild compared with the hanging that the man deserved. William of Malmesbury does not name the assassin either, but relates that he had custody of the royal treasury. The historian C. Warren Hollister first made the identification between "H." and Herbert, noting that there was only one chamberlain in King Henry I's reign who had a name beginning with "H". The main argument against the identification is the fact that most records considered that Herbert remained in office until close to 1129 or 1130. However, charter evidence supports the inheritance of Herbert's lands by his son before 1121.[9]

1. Herbert FitzHerbert the King's Chamberlain, b. ABT 1087 in Blaen, Llyfni, Brecknockshire, Wales     d. BEF 1155 in Winchester, Hampshire, England

1. Title: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Landed Gentry, Vol. 1, pg. 569.jpg
   Author: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Landed Gentry, Vol. 1, pg. 569.jpg
   Note: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Landed Gentry, Vol. 1, pg. 569.jpg
   Page: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Landed Gentry, Vol. 1, pg. 569.jpg
   
2. Title: Wikiwand - Herbert of Winchester
   Publication: Name: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Talk:Herbert_of_Winchester;
   
3. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer)
   Author: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer).
   Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165545565;
   Note: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer).
   Page: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer).
   
4. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain [See document in the Memories section]
   Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain;
   Note: Herbert the Chamberlain in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Herbert the Chamberlain in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain [See document in the Memories section]
   
5. Title: Book - Dictionary of Judges of England
   
6. Title: Genealogies
   Author: Glamorganshire, Wales.
   Note: The Genealogies of Glamorgan, Wales Genealogical Library at Cardiff, Wales. the National Library of Wales at Aberystwyth.
   Page: From the book John Pidding Jones, his ancestors and descendants.
   
7. Title: Henry FitzHerbert and Herbert FitzHenry in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain [See document in the Memories section]
   Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain;
   Note: Henry FitzHerbert and Herbert FitzHenry in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Henry FitzHerbert and Herbert FitzHenry in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain [See document in the Memories section]
   
8. Title: Henry
   Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertFitzHerbertdied1204B;
   
9. Title: Our royal, titled, noble and commoner ancestors
   Author: Citations [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. II, p. 618.
   Publication: Name: https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p376.htm#i11274;
   Note: Herbert 'of Winchester', Chamberlain and Treasurer of England for Kings William II & Henry I1 Last Edited 4 Apr 2020 M, #11274, d. between 1118 and 1120 Herbert 'of Winchester', Chamberlain and Treasurer of England for Kings William II & Henry I married Emma of Blois, daughter of Etienne III, Count of Champagne, Brie, Blois, Chartres, Chateaudun, Meaux, Provins, Sancerre, & Troyes and Adela of England; They had 2 sons (Herbert; & (Saint) William, Archbishop of York) & 2 daughters ((unnamed), wife of Robert de Venuiz; & (unnamed), wife of William Croc).1 Herbert 'of Winchester', Chamberlain and Treasurer of England for Kings William II & Henry I died between 1118 and 1120.1 Family Emma of Blois d. a 1130 Children Herbert FitzHerbert, King's Chamberlain+1 d. b 1155 St. William FitzHerbert, Archbishop of York1 d. 1154
   
10. Title: Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61
    Author: Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61
    Note: Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61
    Page: Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61
    
11. Title: Millennium File
    Author: Heritage Consulting. Millennium File [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2003. Original data: Heritage Consulting. The Millennium File. Salt Lake City, UT, USA: Heritage Consulting.
    Publication: Name: http://Ancestry.com;
    Note: The Millennium File is a database created by the Institute of Family Research to track the records of its clients and the results of its professional research. It contains more than 880,000 linked family records, with lineages from throughout the world, including colonial America, the British Isles, Switzerland, and Germany. Many of these lineages extend back to nobility and renowned historical figures. In fact, one of the things the Millennium File focuses on is linking to European nobility and royalty. A good way to have success in using this database is identify at least one Gateway Ancestor. A Gateway Ancestor is an early American immigrant who has been identified as having roots in British or European nobility. In this database there are about 300 Gateway Ancestors, or in other words, there are about 300 individuals who have proven ties to nobility or royalty. Source information is also provided in this database, making it easier to verify the accuracy of the research done. The Millennium File is a compiled source and is similar in form to other linked databases, such as Ancestry World Tree. Databases like these are great starting points for beginning your research. It is always good to find out what others have already learned and compiled about your ancestors.
    Page: Its a source.
    
12. Title: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
    Author: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
    Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165477844;
    Note: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
    Page: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
    
13. Title: Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61 [See document in the Memories section]
    Author: The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61
    Note: Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, pg. 61 [See document in the Memories section]
    
14. Title: Geneanet
    Publication: Name: https://gw.geneanet.org/belfast8?lang=en&p=herbert+de+vermandois&n=carolingians&oc=2;
    
15. Title: Herbert FitzHenry - Medlands - FMG
    Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain;
    
16. Title: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
    Author: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
    Note: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
    
17. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
    Author: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
    Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165484712;
    Note: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
    Page: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
    
18. Title: Herbert FitzHenry
    Author: HERBERT FitzHenry, son of HENRY & his wife --- (-[1129/30]). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified
    Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain;
    
19. Title: Herbert (grandson of Herbertus Camerarius Chamberlain of William the Conqueror) and Herbert his son in Liber Niger, Vol. 1, pg. 69
    Author: Herbert (grandson of Herbertus Camerarius Chamberlain of William the Conqueror) and Herbert his son in Liber Niger, Vol. 1, pg. 69
    Note: Herbert (grandson of Herbertus Camerarius Chamberlain of William the Conqueror) and Herbert his son in Liber Niger, Vol. 1, pg. 69
    Page: Herbert (grandson of Herbertus Camerarius Chamberlain of William the Conqueror) and Herbert his son in Liber Niger, Vol. 1, pg. 69
    
20. Title: The family of Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy
    Author: The family of Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [See document in the Memories section]
    Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165472287;
    Note: The family of Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: The family of Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [See document in the Memories section]
    
21. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain from Archaeologia Cambrensis, Vol. 4, Third Series, Vol. 13, pp 16-30 [See document in the Memories section]
    Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/98097941;
    Note: Herbert the Chamberlain from Archaeologia Cambrensis, Vol. 4, Third Series, Vol. 13, pp 16-30 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Reattach source.
    
22. Title: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50
    Author: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50
    Publication: Name: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50;
    Note: Contents [hide] 1 Biography 1.1 Name 1.2 1060 Birth 1.3 Reported Vermandois Ancestry 1.4 1066 Battle of Hastings 1.5 1089 Domesday Survey 1.6 Chamberlain of the Winchester Treasury 1.7 1101 Charter 1.8 Properties in Yorkshire and Gloucestershire 1.9 1086 Marriage to Emma 1.10 1100 Second Marriage to Millisent 1.11 1129 Death 1.12 Issue 2 Research Notes 2.1 UNKNOWN/UNPROVEN ANCESTRY -- DO NOT ATTACH ANY PARENTS! (OCTOBER 2014) 3 Sources 4 Acknowledgements Biography Per Wikipedia: Name "Herbert of Winchester (sometimes Herbert fitzAlberic)[1] was an Anglo-Norman nobleman during the period following the Norman conquest of England. [1] Herbert Of Winchester (also styled Herbert The Chamberlain), Chamberlain and Treasurer under Kings William II and Henry I. [2] Herbert "The Chamberlain" of Winchester. [3] 1060 Birth Herbert was born about 1060 in Winchester, Hampshire, England. [3] According to Geni, without other citation, he was the son of Herbert Cornwell FitzGodwyn [3] The primary source which confirms Herbert FitzHenry's parentage has not yet been identified. [4] Reported Vermandois Ancestry "This very ancient family from which the chivalrous house of Herbert and other eminent houses sprang, derived originally in England from Herbert, styled Count of Vermandois, who came over at the Conquest with the first William and filled the office of Chamberlain to William Rufus. He was great-grandson of Herbert, Comte de Vermandois, the lineal descendant of Charlemagne. [5] He is often called a son of Piers de Vermandois, who was probably invented to provide a genealogical link to the counts of Vermandois. According to Weis, his ancestry has not been proven. Burke's Commoners, a notoriously unreliable source, says he was a great grandson of Héribert de Vermandois.[3] 1066 Battle of Hastings Herbert is mentioned in the Battel Abbey Roll and was rewarded by a grant of lands in Hampshire. [5] 'Note: This is not consistent with a birth in 1060!Day-1904 10:33, 7 March 2018 (EST) 1089 Domesday Survey "Herbert held land as an under-tenant of the Archbishop of York in the Domesday Survey of 1089.[2] [1] Chamberlain of the Winchester Treasury He held the office of chamberlain of the Winchester treasury during the reign of King William II of England,[3] and the office of chancellor and treasurer under King Henry I.[4] [1] He was Chamberlain and Treasurer of England under William I and William II.[3] 1101 Charter "…Herbertus regis camerarius…" subscribed a charter dated Sep 1101 under which Bishop Herbert donated property to Norwich priory[152]. [4] Properties in Yorkshire and Gloucestershire Chamberlain of Henry I King of England. An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…"[153].[4] During William II's reign, Herbert became a tenant-in-chief, holding lands directly from the king. Herbert may have been a member of the clergy, although it is known that he was married.[5][1] 1086 Marriage to Emma Marriage Date Estimation: Current birth year for oldest son is 1087. Estimate marriage the year prior. His wife was Emma, daughter of Stephen, Earl of Blois, by Adela, daughter of William the Conqueror, and by that lady left a son and heir, Herbert Fitz-Herbert." [5] "Most sources state that Herbert married Emma, half-sister of King Stephen and Henry of Blois, Bishop of Winchester,[6] and that she was an illegitimate daughter of Stephen II, Count of Blois, Stephen's father.[7] New research, however, suggests that Emma might have been a daughter of Hunger fitz Odin, who held lands in Dorset in the Domesday survey.[3][8][1] He married Emma ______, allegedly an illegitimate daughter of Etienne Henri, Count of Blois, and half-sister to Stephen, King of England. [2] He married first Emma de Blois-Champagne[3] m firstly EMMA de Blois, illegitimate daughter of ETIENNE Comte de Blois & his mistress --- (before 1102-). The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.[4] 1100 Second Marriage to Millisent Marriage Year Estimation. Assume Emma's death as untimely and his subsequent marriage to Millisent while there were children at home. He married secondly Milisent. [3] m secondly MILISENT, daughter of [ADAM], niece of William Turniant. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.[4] 1129 Death Sir Herbert Of Winchester was living in 1111, when he was a member of the Michelmas treasury court at Winchester. [2] However, there is no certain record of Herbert after 1111, and it is possible that he should be considered the same person as "H. the Chamberlain", who Abbot Suger of St Denis named as an attempted assassin of Henry I in 1118, and who was punished by the king for the attempt.[3] Suger stated that the would-be-assassin was a chamberlain whose name began with "H", and who had been close to the king and received great rewards from the king. Suger added that the king only blinded and castrated the man, which the abbot considered to be mild compared with the hanging that the man deserved. William of Malmesbury does not name the assassin either, but relates that he had custody of the royal treasury. The historian C. Warren Hollister first made the identification between "H." and Herbert, noting that there was only one chamberlain in King Henry I's reign who had a name beginning with "H". The main argument against the identification is the fact that most records considered that Herbert remained in office until close to 1129 or 1130. However, charter evidence supports the inheritance of Herbert's lands by his son before 1121.[9][1] He probably died in 1118/20. [2] "Herbert was probably dead by 1129–1130, when the Pipe Roll of 1130 records his son as owing a fine for the inheritance of his father's lands,[3] a fine totalling over 353 marks, perhaps as much as 500.[5] [1] Herbert FitzHenry of Winchester, Chamberlain of Henry I King of England d. 1129[3] Herbert FitzHenry, died in 1129. [4] He died about 1130 in Hampshire, England.[3] Issue "Herbert and his wife Emma had two sons and two daughters: Herbert [1] [2] Herbert Fitz Herbert, lord of Blaen Llyfni [3] HERBERT FitzHerbert [I] (-[before 1155]). The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Herbt fil Herbti Camer…tra patis sui" in Hampshire[154]. An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…"[155]. "…Hereberto filio Hereberti…" subscribed a charter of Renaud Earl of Cornwall which names "matertere mee Aliz Corbet"[156]. m ([1115/25]) SIBYL Corbet Lady of Alcester and Pontesbury, formerly mistress of HENRY I King of England, daughter of ROBERT Corbet of Alcester, co Warwick & his wife --- ([1090/95]-after 1157). The Complete Peerage deduces her parentage, relationship with King Henry, and her subsequent marriage from a charter, dated to [1163/75], of her son "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" by which he granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage, witnessed by "Nicholao filio meo…Herberto filio Herberti, Baldwino et Ricardo nepotibus meis, Willelmo de Vernun, Willielmo fratre meo…Hugone de Dunstanvill…"[157]. The [1125/35] birth date range estimated for her son Herbert, born from this marriage, suggests that she married after her relationship with the king. The Pipe Roll of 1157 records a payment to "the mother of Earl Reginald" from an estate at Mienes, Sussex[158]. Herbert & his wife had [four] children: [4] ROBERT FitzHerbert (-before 1165). Henry II King of England restored properties of "Roberto filio Hereberti Camerarii", held by "pater suus vel avus suus", by charter dated to [Feb/Mar] 1155, witnessed by "…Rainaldo comite Cornubie…Johanne Marescallo"[159]. Chamberlain of King Henry II. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Robertus filius Herberti v m ii milites et dimidium" in Wiltshire in [1160/61] and [1161/62][160].
    Page: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50
    
23. Title: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
    Author: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
    Note: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
    Page: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
    
24. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Herbert Fitzherbert - Church record: birth: about 1035; England, United Kingdom
    Note: Church record: birth: about 1035; England, United Kingdom
    Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2021606318
    
25. Title: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
    Note: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
    
26. Title: RootsWeb
    
27. Title: Foundation for Medieval Genealogy - see notes in collaborate
    Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#HerbertChamberlain;
    
28. Title: Herbertus Camerarius, Chamberlain of William the Conqueror, in Liber Niger, Vol. 1, pg. 69 [See document in the Memories section]
    Note: Herbertus Camerarius, Chamberlain of William the Conqueror, in Liber Niger, Vol. 1, pg. 69 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Herbertus Camerarius, Chamberlain of William the Conqueror, in Liber Niger, Vol. 1, pg. 69 [See document in the Memories section]
    
29. Title: Source URL Wikipedia
    Publication: Name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_IV,_Count_of_Vermandois;
    
30. Title: Wikipedia -Herbert of Winchester, Chamberlain of Henry I
    Publication: Name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_of_Winchester;
    
31. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain from Archaeologia Cambrensis, Vol. 4, Third Series, Vol. 13, pp 16-30 [See document in the Memories section]
    Author: Herbert the Chamberlain from Archaeologia Cambrensis, Vol. 4, Third Series, Vol. 13, pp 16-30 [See document in the Memories section]
    Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/98097941;
    Note: Herbert the Chamberlain from Archaeologia Cambrensis, Vol. 4, Third Series, Vol. 13, pp 16-30 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Herbert the Chamberlain from Archaeologia Cambrensis, Vol. 4, Third Series, Vol. 13, pp 16-30 [See document in the Memories section]
    
32. Title: See also: http://www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Person/48434175/20358341078 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50
    Author: See also: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50 http://www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Person/48434175/20358341078
    Publication: Name: http://www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Person/48434175/20358341078 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50;
    Note: See also:https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50 http://www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Person/48434175/20358341078
    Page: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winchester-50
    
33. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerari) and Henry the Treasurer (Henricus Thesaurari) in the Domesday Book httpsopendomesday.org/book/hampshire01 [See document in the Memories section]
    Note: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerari) and Henry the Treasurer (Henricus Thesaurari) in the Doomsday Book httpsopendomesday.org/book/hampshire01 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Reattach source.
    
34. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) [Chamberlain of William the Conqueror, William II and Henry I] in British History Online
    Author: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) [Chamberlain of William the Conqueror, William II and Henry I] in British History Online
    Note: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) [Chamberlain of William the Conqueror, William II and Henry I] in British History Online
    Page: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) [Chamberlain of William the Conqueror, William II and Henry I] in British History Online