Rhys Sais Ap Ednyfed

• Preferred Name: Rhys Sais Ap Ednyfed^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]}
  
• Gender: M
  
• Burial: ABT 1073 in Shropshire, England, United Kingdom at LATI: N2.6431 LONG: E2.7136
  
• Tribe Name: with note: Description: Tudur Trefor
  
• Death: ABT 1073 in Shropshire, England, United Kingdom at LATI: N2.6431 LONG: E2.7136
  
• FSID: GMNG-XQ2
  
• Fact: with note: Description: https://www.geni.com/people/Rhys-ab-Ednyfed/6000000000804915477?through=6000000000351085349
  
• Birth: 1025 in Montgomeryshire, Powys, Wales, United Kingdom at LATI: N2.5628 LONG: E3.1493
  
• Notes:

  === Life Sketch ===
  RHYS SAIS
  
  He was the lord of Chirk, Maelor, Saesnog, and Nanhudwy. He also possessed lands in Whittington, Oswestry, North Wales. He has three sons: Tudor, Elidour, and Iddon, abour 900 A.D.
  
  Source: Ancestry of the Newell Hale Goff Family,originally compiled by Thomas Theodore Goff of Whitewater, Wisconsin.
  
  === !Aristocratic and Royal Andestors GS 929 ===
  !Aristocratic and Royal Andestors GS 929.242 H249t p. 921. Birth date and place from Ancestral File
  
  === The Visitations of Wales - Flintshire Pe ===
  The Visitations of Wales - Flintshire Pedigrees - 2:307
  
  === !1. Bartrum, 300-1400, pg. 871, Tudur 2 ===
  !1. Bartrum, 300-1400, pg. 871, Tudur 2 and 1
  
  === !#4569-v3-p501; !of Y Faenol, Bodelwydda ===
  !#4569-v3-p501; !of Y Faenol, Bodelwyddan, St Asaph;
  
  === An issue with the parentage of Rhys Sais ===
  There are two pedigrees contained in the article titled "The Origin of the Peverils" in the Archaeologia Cambrensis, 6th Series Vol. 4, which report that Jonet is the mother of Rhys Sais [See documents in the memories section]. Both of those pedigrees identify Jonet as Jonet verch Rhiwallawn and her spouse as Ednyved ap Llowarch. However, it is noted that Jonet's father Rhiwallawn is reported in one pedigree to have married in 1068 and in the other pedigree to have died in 1068. Rhiwallawn (Rhiwallon) ap Cynfyn fought in the Battle of Mechain and was killed in that battle in 1069. Thus, the dates given in the two pedigrees must be the death date rather than a marriage date.
  
  Even if 1068/1069 is the death date, that would imply that Rhiwallawn could not have been born early enough to be the father of a daughter born early enough to be the mother of Rhys Sais who, as the father of Tudor ab Rhys Sais and the grandfather of Ranulf Peverell who was an adult and obtained properties from William the Conqueror after the conquest in 1066, must have been born by 1020. That would mean his mother must have been born before 1000 and her father born likely before 975. Most references to Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn report his birth about 1020, much too late to be the father of Rhys Sais' mother, if his mother is Jonet.
  
  On page 134, in the above cited Archaeologia Cambrensis article, there is a discussion questioning whether a grand daughter (Jonet) of Cynfyn ap Gwerston (father of Rhiwallawn) could be the mother of Rhys Sais. It appears totally impossible that the Jonet and Ednyved listed in the above named pedigrees could be the parents of Rhys Sais. That his parents could have been one Jonet and Ednyved is possible, but not with the parentage given in the pedigrees.
  
  An alternative parentage with pedigrees is presented in THE CLAN OF TUDOR TREVOR By Darrell Wolcott ~www.ancientwalesstudies.org [See document in the Memories section] which provides the following explanation concerning the son of Tudor Trevor named Lludoca:
  "(2) Lluddoca was Lord of Chirk, Whittington, Oswestry and Maelor Saesnaeg and died in 1037, leaving by his wife Angharad (daughter of Iago ap Idwal of north Wales) a son Llywarch, who by Lucy his wife, daughter of Gwerystan ap Gwaethfoed, Lord of Cibwyr in Gwent, had a son and heir, Ednyfed, who married Janet, daughter of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn and was the father of Rhys Sais.
  "(Lluddoca was likely born c. 930/935 and his obit is not recorded. Angharad would have been a granddaughter of Idwal Foel, not a daughter of King Iago ap Idwal whose rule began in 1033. The Lleuci who married Llywarch Gam was a daughter of Gwerystan, but he had no connection at all with lands in Gwent. His home was probably Cwybr in Tegeingl [7]. The Sioned (Janet) who married Ednyfed was a daughter of Rhiwallon ap Dyngad ap Tudor Trevor, not Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn.[8]
  [7] The likely home of Gwerystan is discussed in the paper "Ithel of Bryn in Powys" at the link below: http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id43.html
  [8] Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn was born to Cynfyn and Angharad ferch Maredudd shortly after the 1023 death of her first husband. No daughter of his could have married an Ednyfed born c. 995 or have borne Rhys Sais near 1025."
  
  In this alternative pedigree, one Ednyfed married one Sioned (Janet = Jonet), but those parents of Rhys Sais are born about 995-1000 respectively, thus of the correct time frame to be the correct parents [See pedigrees in the above cited article "The Clan of Tudor Trevor" in the Memories section].
  
  === !#4568-v1-p47; v5-281; v9-p532; v12-p870 ===
  !#4568-v1-p47; v5-281; v9-p532; v12-p870,871,887,896; !#205-v5-p412,413; !#771-v1-p11,75,310,311,312; v3-p381; birth 1036, death 1070; !#1174-p255,256; Lord of Whittington and Oswestry; also called Peverc; !#772-6S-v4-p129,130; Archive Records - Mostyns of Mostyn;

1. Generys Verch Rhys Sais, b. ABT 1063 in Hirdref, Llyn, Gwynedd, Wales    
2. Tudur ap Rhys Sais of Chirk Whittington, b. ABT 1055 in Penley, Flintshire, Wales     d. ABT 1106 in Wales

1. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Lord Rhys (son of) Ednyfed Sais - School record: death:
   Note: School record: death:
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2039509581
   
2. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Lord Rhys (son of) Ednyfed Sais -
   Author: Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families; John Edwards Griffith {1914}, Page number: 182
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2736742961
   
3. Title: THE CLAN OF TUDOR TREVOR By Darrell Wolcott in Ancient Wales Studies ~www.ancientwalesstudies.org [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: THE CLAN OF TUDOR TREVOR By Darrell Wolcott in Ancient Wales Studies ~www.ancientwalesstudies.org
   Publication: Name: http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org;
   Note: THE CLAN OF TUDOR TREVOR By Darrell Wolcott in Ancient Wales Studies ~www.ancientwalesstudies.org [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: THE CLAN OF TUDOR TREVOR By Darrell Wolcott in Ancient Wales Studies ~www.ancientwalesstudies.org [See document in the Memories section]
   
4. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Lord Rhys (son of) Ednyfed Sais -
   Author: A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland. London, England: Hurst and Blac, Page number: 1254
   Note: Source Media Type: Book
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2736742602
   
5. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Lord Rhys (son of) Ednyfed Sais - birth-name: Rhys Sais Ap Ednyfed
   Author: Ancestry Family Trees, Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members., Page number: Ancestry Family Trees
   Note: birth-name: Rhys Sais Ap Ednyfed This information comes from 1 or more individual Ancestry Family Tree files. This source citation points you to a current version of those files. Note: The owners of these tree files may have removed or changed information since this source citation was created.
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2809301001
   
6. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Lord Rhys (son of) Ednyfed Sais - Published information: male
   Note: Published information: male Published information: birth-name: Rhys Sais AP Ednyfed Published information: birth: about 0985; Powys, Wales, United Kingdom
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2036922561
   
7. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Lord Rhys (son of) Ednyfed Sais -
   Author: Welsh Genealogies, AD 300-1400; Peter C Bartrum, Page number: Tudur Trevor 1 & 2
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2736742563