Alice Broadspear

• Preferred Name: Alice Broadspear^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]}
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Broadspare 80152577
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Broadspeare Broadspeare
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Verch Blethin
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Broadspeare
  
• Alternate Name: Alice ®8 Broadspeare
  
• Alternate Name: Alice
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Broadspere
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Bleddyn Browdspear
  
• Alternate Name: Alice verch Blethyn
  
• Alternate Name: Alice vz Blethyn Brokenspeare
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Broadspere of Llanlowell
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Broadspear
  
• Alternate Name: Alice Broadseare
  
• Gender: F
  
• unknown: in Lord of Llanllowel and Beachley Mon.
  
• Death: ABT 1315 in Hertfordshire, England at LATI: N1.8375 LONG: E0.1895
  
• Birth: 1278 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales, United Kingdom at LATI: N1.8254 LONG: E3.0201 with note: Wern-ddu is a hamlet just outside of Abergavenny
  
• FSID: LZV6-NJ3
  
• unknown: in daughter and heir to Bleddyn Broadspear
  
• Notes:

  === Ancestral File Number: PXX8-1S ===
  Ancestral File Number: PXX8-1S
  
  === !GENERAL:Pedigree Resource File CD 4, Pe ===
  !GENERAL:Pedigree Resource File CD 4, Pedigree Resource File CD 4, (Salt Lake City, UT: Intellectual Reserve, Inc., 1999)
  
  === Some background information concerning Peter FitzReginald and Alice Broadspear. ===
  Herbert FitzPeter was the son of Peter FitzReginald who married Alice Broadspear. They are documented as follows.
  
  A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire makes the following comments concerning Peter FitzReginald: "The house of Herbert deduces descent from Peter Fitzreginald, brother of John Fitzreginald, summoned to parliament as a baron, 1294-1307,...derived from Herbert Fitzherbert, son of Herbert, Chamberlain to William Rufus, and grandson of Peter, stated to have been brother of Herbert, Count of Vermandois, and son of Otho, Count of Vermandois, 7th in descent, through the Counts of Vermandois and Kings of Italy and Lombardy, from Pepin, King of Italy and Lombardy, who d. A.D. 810, youngest son of Charlemagne, Emperor of the West. Peter Fitzreginald, b. in 1275, had a grant from his mother, Joan, dau. and co-heir of William de Vivonia (de Fortibus) of the manor of Chewyton or Chuton, Co. Somerset, of which he’d. seized in 1323, set. forty-eight years. He m. Alice, dau. and heir of Blethin Broadspear, Lord of Llanllowel, near Uske, in Monmouthshire, and had issue, I. Roger Fitzpeter, who d. in his father's lifetime, leaving a son and heir, Sir Henry Fitzroger, whose grand-dau. and heir m. John Bonville. II. Herbert Fitzpeter."
  
  The "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis states the following: "...this Peter Fitz-Reginald had, from his mother, a grant of the Lordship of Chewton, Co. Somerset; of which manor, with that of Hinton Mayne, etc., he died seised in the year 1323, as appears by Inquisition. By his wife Alice, daughter and heir of Bleddyn (usually called Bleddyn Broadspear), Lord of Llanllowel, Co. Monmouth, Peter had two sons, Herbert and Roger. Of the latter, we only know that he left a son Henry Fitz-Roger, a minor in 1327."
  
  The Annuals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales states: "Peter, son of Reginald, b. in 1275, m. Alice, dau. and h. of Bleiddian (or Bleddyn) Broadspear, Lord of Llanllywel, near Usk (Wysg), in Gwent. He died in 1323."
  
  The above records place Peter's birth in 1275 and his death in 1323 at the age of 48. However, the book "John Pidding Jones: His Ancestors and Descendants" lists Peter FitzReginald's birth as about 1240. Both of these birth dates create something of a problem. The date 1275 appears to be much too late inasmuch as one of Peter's great grandsons (John ap Adam) reportedly died at the beginning of the reign of King Edward II [about 1307/1308], leaving a wife and son. A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, speaking of John Ap Adam, states: "He was in the wars of Scotland, temp, Edward I, and died in the beginning of Edward II, leaving by Elizabeth his wife, the daughter and heir of John de Gourns, baron of Beverston, in the county of Gloucester, a son, Thomas Ap John, lord of Llanllowell who being of age in 1325 had livery of his lands..." Thus Thomas ap John, a great great grandson, had to have been born in or before 1307-08. Calculating back about 20/25 years from John ap Adam's death (1307/08), he was likely born about 1282-87, and his father, Adam FitzHerbert, some 20/25 years before that in about 1262-67, and his father, Herbert FitzPeter, some 20/25 years before that in about 1242-47. That would likely make Peter's birth closer to 1222-27. The "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis states that "Herbert, the eldest son of Peter Fitz-Reginald, was forty-eight years old and upwards when his father died, in 1323..." That would indicate that Herbert, son of Peter, was the one who was 48 years of age or older when Peter died in 1323, and that would make Herbert's date of birth 1275 or earlier (not Peter's). Calculating Peter's date of birth from the opposite direction, it is noted that his grandfather, Peter FitzHerbert was born 1163 and died 1235. His father, Reginald FitzPeter, was born about 1195/1200 and died 1286. Again that puts Peter's birth likely around 1225.
  
  Whatever Peter's actual date of birth is, it most certainly cannot be in 1275, and some 50 years earlier (1225) would appear to be more logical. However, that would make Peter almost 100 years old in 1323 when he reportedly died. Thus, there is a problem with these dates for Peter that likely will not be easily resolved.
  
  Peter FitzReginald was the son of Reginald FitzPeter who married Joan de Vivonia (also named Joan de Fortibus).
  
  See also the "Revised History of John Pidding Jones and Margaret Lee Jones" (published 2015 by Michael Norman Grimshaw, Ph.D.), pages 58-60.
  
  === !AF 4.15: Encl. 233 ===
  !AF 4.15: Encl. 233
  
  === !Ancestral File 1996 ===
  !Ancestral File 1996
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 January 1996. From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 January 1996.
  
  === IGI Ped Res File #11 ===
  IGI Ped Res File #11
  
  === T Jones: History of Brecknockshire P. 3 ===
  T Jones: History of Brecknockshire P. 394
  
  === Line in Record @I04488@ (RIN 4383) from ===
  Line in Record @I04488@ (RIN 4383) from GEDCOM file not recognized: FAMILY_SPOUSE @F1823@
  
  === Please read these alert notes before making changes to Alice Broadspear. ===
  Please read these alert notes before making changes to Alice Broadspear.
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 5 JAN 1998.
  
  === WFT v2 4154 dd WFT dd dp ===
  WFT v2 4154 dd WFT dd dp
  
  === Note birthdate is listed after Adam Ap R ===
  Note birthdate is listed after Adam Ap Reginald (son).
  
  === From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 J ===
  From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 January 1996.

1. Herbert FitzPeter, Lord of Llanlowell, b. 1265 in Kevendyglwydd, Monouthshire, Wales     d. 18 NOV 1322

1. Title: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
   Author: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
   Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165477844;
   Note: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
   Page: Pedigree of the family of Herbert of Vermandois (Herbertus Camerarius) in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159
   
2. Title: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
   Author: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
   Note: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
   Page: Herbert (Herbertus Camerarius) in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 271
   
3. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer)
   Author: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer).
   Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165545565;
   Note: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer).
   Page: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius), in A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 1, pg. 613 [but missing the generation of Henry the Treasurer).
   
4. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Alice Broadspere -
   Author: A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland. London, England: Hurst and Blac, Page number: 146
   Note: Source Media Type: Book
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2736742602
   
5. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Alice Broadspere -
   Author: A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire, Sir Bernard Burke {, Page number: 271
   Note: Source Media Type: Book
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2736741116
   
6. Title: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
   Author: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
   Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165484712;
   Note: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
   Page: Herbert the Chamberlain (Herbertus Camerarius) in History of Monmouthshire, pgs. 116-118
   
7. Title: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
   Note: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Family of Herbert from Annals and Antiquities, vol. II, pg. 776-777 [See document in the Memories section]
   
8. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Alice Broadspere -
   Author: History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland, John Burke {1834-1838}, Page number: IV:729
   Note: Source Media Type: Book
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2736741117
   
9. Title: Peter FitzReginald and Alice in Archaeologia Cambrensis, Third Series, No. XIII, January 1858, pgs. 27-28
   Author: Peter FitzReginald and Alice in Archaeologia Cambrensis, Third Series, No. XIII, January 1858, pgs. 27-28
   Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165606796;
   Note: Peter FitzReginald and Alice in Archaeologia Cambrensis, Third Series, No. XIII, January 1858, pgs. 27-28
   Page: Peter FitzReginald and Alice in Archaeologia Cambrensis, Third Series, No. XIII, January 1858, pgs. 27-28
   
10. Title: Human Family Project
    Author: Mary H. Slawson, Human Family Project - Reconstruction of the Irish Surnames from Milesus to 1600 (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Medieval History Specialist, Ireland 2005).
    
11. Title: Peter FitzReginald in A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britian and Ireland, pg. 659
    Author: Peter FitzReginald in A Genelogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britian and Ireland, pg. 659
    Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/165716547;
    Note: Peter FitzReginald in A Genelogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britian and Ireland, pg. 659
    Page: Peter FitzReginald in A Genelogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britian and Ireland, pg. 659