Hawise de Muscegros

• Preferred Name: Hawise de Muscegros^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]}
  
• Alternate Name: Lady of Taynton
  
• Alternate Name: Lady of Longford
  
• Alternate Name: Hawyse de Musegross
  
• Alternate Name: Lady of Bicknor
  
• Gender: F
  
• FSID: LTNQ-5DY
  
• Death: DEC 1350 in London, Middlesex, England with note: Find A Grave. No source with 3-place date or location in London found.
  
• Alternate+Death+Date+and+Place: 29 JUN 1375 in Chartley Castle, Staffordshire, England at LATI: N2.85 LONG: E1.9833 with note: Last Changed: July 22, 2019
  
• Fact: with note: Description: https://www.geni.com/people/Hawise-de-Muscegros-Lady-of-Bicknor-Taynton-and-Longford/6000000002811369960?through=6000000004309172093 copied from merge
  
• Alternate+Death+Date: with note: Description: 1353 www.findagrave.com/memorial/110101724/hawise-de_ferrers
  
• Birth: 21 DEC 1276 in Charlton Musgrove, Somerset, England at LATI: N1.0749 LONG: E2.4079 with note: Foundation for Medieval Genealogy: JOHN Ferrers of Chartley, Staffordshire, son of ROBERT de Ferrers Earl of Derby & his second wife Alianore de Bohun
  
• Burial: ABT 1353 in St. Mary Churchyard, English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England at LATI: N1.8319 LONG: E2.615
  
• Notes:

  BIO
  BIO: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#JohnFerrersdied1367A as of 6/18/2016
  
  HAWISE de Muscegros, widow of WILLIAM de Mortimer of Bridgewater, daughter and heiress of
  
  === Hawise de Muscegros, b. 21 Dec 1276, d. ===
  Hawise de Muscegros, b. 21 Dec 1276, d. aft. 24 June 1340; m. (2) bet. 2 Feb 1297/8 and 13 Sep 1300, Sir John de Ferrers, Lord Ferrers of Chartley, d. 1312; m. (3) Sir John de Bures, d. Bodington, 21 or 22 Dec 1350. [Magna Charta Sureties]
  
  Note: Ancestral Roots has a death date: "bef. Dec 1350", both AR & MCS could be correct.
  
  Note: Some say that no marriage took place between William de Mortimer & Hawise de Muscegros, only a betrothal. However MCS names her marriage to John de Ferrers as her 2nd marriage and 3rd to John de Bures.
  
  === Ancestral File Number: G8B9-C6 ===
  Ancestral File Number: G8B9-C6
  
  ===
  Per Brian Tompsett's Directory of Royal ===
  
  Per Brian Tompsett's Directory of Royal Genealogical Data, she acceded on
  June 24, 1340.
  
  === !BIR-MAR-DEA: Bk, Medieval Knight by Ste ===
  !BIR-MAR-DEA: Bk, Medieval Knight by Stephen Turnbull.
  
  === Sources: Ancestral Roots 61, 189; Smallw ===
  Sources: Ancestral Roots 61, 189; Smallwood; Colket; Norr. Lady of Charlton, Norton and Boddington. Widow of William de Mortimerof Bridgewater, one source says. She was living 24 June 1340. Roots:Hawise de Muscegros, betrothed but not married to William deMortimer. Married (1) Sir John Ferrers between 2 Feb. 1297/98 and 13 Sept. 1300. Surname also spelled Muchgros.
  
  === ! ! ! ! !! !! !Pedigrees of Some of the ===
  ! ! ! ! !! !! !Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants by J. Orton Buck and Timothy Field Beard Page 19 Plantagenet Royal Ancestry LDS Family History Library Accompanied his father on the Fifth Crusade in 1219 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !LDS Family History Library Rogers Ark 5 Mar 1995 Plantagenet Royal Ancestors ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !LDS Family History Library Rogers Ark 5 Mar 1995 Plantagenet Royal Ancestors Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants page 23 Hawises' 3rd husband was Sir John Bures died at Bodington 22 Dec 1350
  
  === M E Sorley: The Sorley Pedigrees P. 25, ===
  M E Sorley: The Sorley Pedigrees P. 25, 41
  
  === Source: Weis, Sheppard, Beal, The Magna ===
  Source: Weis, Sheppard, Beal, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, 5th Ed., Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, [1999], 57-5.
  
  === Some background information concerning the Mucegros (Musgrave) family in England ===
  The origins of the Mucegros family (also spelled Muscegros, Mussegros, Mucelgros, Musgrove and later anglicized as Musgrave) is very much a mystery. The Battle Abbey Roll, Vol. 2, reports there was a Robert de Mucelgros documented by Orderic Vitalis in his Ecclesiastical History of England and Normandy, but with no additional information [Robert de Mucelgros is found in FamilySearch.org under PID GW35-3LD and currently attached to no one]. The Battle Abbey Roll also reports there was a Roger de Mucelgros who appears in the Domesday Book in 1086 [Roger de Mucelgros is found in FamilySearch.org under PID GW3P-BGC and currently attached to no one]. The Domesday Book does, in fact, confirm Roger de Mucelgros (spelled Mussegros ) as the holder of three manors, apparently received from William the Conqueror for services in the Conquest of England in 1066. The same two individuals are also named in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants, pg. 341 [See documents attached in the Memories section of each of those individuals]. That begs the question: What is the connection between Robert and Roger de Mucelgros? Are they father and son? Are they brothers? Or is there another relationship between the two? Currently there appears no way from historical records to further identify those two members of the Mucegros family. The Dormant and Extinct Baronage of England, pg. 382, relates a very fanciful story about the origins the Musegros (Musgrave) family as coming from Germany. The Battle Abbey Roll also mentions the tale of German origin, but seems to pass it off as fantasy. That the Mucegros family originated in Normandy, France, seems to be a certainty. After the above-named Robert and Roger de Mucelgros, the Mucegros family seems to disappear from view until the late 1100s. There must be three or four missing generations between Robert and Roger de Mucelgros and the next documented Mucegros family members.
  
  The first truly documented Mucegros family members are Richard de Mucegros and his brother Simon de Mucegros (about 1180-1190) who married two sisters, Alice de Dive and Asceline de Dive respectively, a classic case of two brothers marrying two sisters. Those four individuals are well documented in a Dive pedigree found in The History and Antiquities of the County of Northampton and in several entries in British History Online [See documents attached to each of the above individuals in the Memories section of each].
  
  What is not clear is how Richard and Simon de Mucegros are connected to the two previously mentioned Richard and Roger de Mucelgros. Clearly a good 100 years of time elapses between Richard and Roger de Mucelgros and Richard and Simon de Mucegros. Missing are likely four generations of the family, but who and where they are is currently a complete enigma.
  
  Richard de Mucegros and Alice de Dive are the parents of a Robert Muscegros who married Helewise (Hawise) Malet, daughter of William Malet of Curry Malet. Again, this Robert Muscegros and Hawise Malet are well documented in several historical records. They are the parents of John Muscegros who is the father of another Robert Muscegros who is the father of Hawise Mucegros who married three times: 1. William de Mortimer, 2. John de Ferrers and 3. John de Bures. All of these individuals are well documented in several historical records [See documents attached to each in their respective Memories sections].
  
  Simon de Mucegros and Asceline de Dive are the parents of a John de Mucegros whose coheirs were his sisters Alice and Agnes de Mucegros, also children of Simon Mucegros and Anceline de Dive. These individuals are, again, well documented in historical records.
  
  Some private records suggest that the father of the brothers Richard and Simon de Mucegros is a Robert de Mucegros. However, there appears to be very limited historical evidence to substantiate that supposition. The previously cited The Norman People and their Existing Descendants also reports the following cryptic comment: “Musgrove or Mucegros. Matthew, John, and Robert Mucegros, Normandy 1180.” It is currently unknown who these individuals are and what, if any, connection they have to the previously mentioned Mucegros family members. It is also unclear exactly what is meant by the above-quoted statement. Are they three brothers? Are they a father and two sons? Are they three cousins? Did they arrive in England from Normandy in 1180? And, is the mentioned Robert the same person as the reported Robert de Mucegros, father of Richard and Simon? If the Robert named in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants is the father of Richard and Simon, the timing of 1180 would appear to be about the right time frame. Richard and Simon Mucegros were likely born between 1180 and 1190 and were almost certainly born in England. If that Robert is the father of Richard and Simon and if the date 1180 is his arrival date in England, it would put him in the right place (England) at the right time (1180) to be the father of Richard and Simon and would provide one of the missing generations in the Mucegros pedigree. But that begs the question: What happened to Matthew and John, the other two names mentioned in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants?
  
  At present, there seems to be no clear evidence to answer the questions set forth above. However, in pursuing the above analysis, I am going to currently place the Robert Mucegros named in The Norman People and their Existing Descendants as the reported father of Richard and Simon Mucegros until such time as additional records disprove that supposition. As to the original Robert and Roger de Mucelgros, it seems that at least three additional missing generations will need to be identified in order to connect them to their likely posterity who don’t appear in historical records until the mid-to-late 1100s.

• m. 1301 in Chartley, Staffordshire, England

1. Robert de Ferrers, b. 25 MAR 1309 in Chartley Castle, Staffordshire, England     d. 28 AUG 1350 in Willisham, Suffolk, England
2. Eleanor de Ferrers, b. AFT 1305 in Staffordshire, England     d. 17 SEP 1381 in Lathom St James, Lancashire, England

1. Ralph De Stafford, b. 24 SEP 1298 in Amington, Staffordshire, England     d. 31 AUG 1372 in Tonbridge, Kent, England

1. Robert de Ferrers, b. 25 MAR 1309 in Chartley Castle, Staffordshire, England     d. 28 AUG 1350 in Willisham, Suffolk, England

1. Title: Tallman, RichardRootsWeb.com, Inc., The Tallman Family. (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ricktallman : May 2, 2013)
   Author: Tallman, RichardRootsWeb.com, Inc., The Tallman Family. (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ricktallman : May 2, 2013), accessed 4 Apr 2008).
   Note: [PFT:AQ] [S:Titl] Tallman, RichardRootsWeb.com, Inc., The Tallman Family. (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ricktallman : May 2, 2013) [S:AbbrT] Website: The Tallman Family [S:Quay] 4 [Page] accessed 4 Apr 2008) [Quay] 0 [/PFT]
   
2. Title: Robert, Sir John, Sir Robert and Hawise de Mucegros (Musgrove) in British History Online ~https://www.british-history.ac.uk/ [See document in the memories section]
   Publication: Name: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/;
   Note: Robert, Sir John, Sir Robert and Hawise de Mucegros (Musgrove) in British History Online ~https://www.british-history.ac.uk/ [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Robert, Sir John, Sir Robert and Hawise de Mucegros (Musgrove) in British History Online ~https://www.british-history.ac.uk/ [See document in the memories section]
   
3. Title: John de Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Chartley in Wikipedia ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_de_Ferrers,_1st_Baron_Ferrers_of_Chartley [See document in the memories section]
   Publication: Name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_de_Ferrers,_1st_Baron_Ferrers_of_Chartley;
   Note: John de Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Chartley in Wikipedia ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_de_Ferrers,_1st_Baron_Ferrers_of_Chartley [See document in the memories section]
   Page: John de Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Chartley in Wikipedia ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_de_Ferrers,_1st_Baron_Ferrers_of_Chartley [See document in the memories section]
   
4. Title: Musegros (Musgrose) family members in A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507 [See document in the memories section]
   Author: A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507
   Note: Musegros (Musgrose) family members in A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507 [See document in the memories section]
   Page: Musegros (Musgrose) family members in A New History of Gloucestershire, pgs. 251, 288, 300, 389, 418, 495, and 507 [See document in the memories section]
   
5. Title: John Mucegros and Robert Mucegros in the Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57
   Note: John Mucegros and Robert Mucegros in the Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: John Mucegros and Robert Mucegros in the Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
   
6. Title: John Mucegros and Robert Mucegros in Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 189 [See document in the memories section]
   Author: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 189
   Note: John Mucegros and Robert Mucegros in Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 189 [See document in the memories section]
   Page: John Mucegros and Robert Mucegros in Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 189 [See document in the memories section]
   
7. Title: Eleanor de Ferrers and Thomas de Lathom in Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 57
   Note: Eleanor de Ferrers and Thomas de Lathom in Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: Eleanor de Ferrers and Thomas de Lathom in Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
   
8. Title: John de Ferrers in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 199 [See document in the Memories section]
   Author: Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 199
   Note: John de Ferrers in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 199 [See document in the Memories section]
   Page: John de Ferrers in Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages, pg. 199 [See document in the Memories section]
   
9. Title: Hawise de Muscegros de Ferrers, Find a Grave
   Author: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/110101724/hawise-de_ferrers
   Publication: Name: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/110101724/hawise-de_ferrers;
   Note: Hawise de Muscegros de Ferrers BIRTH unknown England DEATH 1353 Gloucestershire, England BURIAL St Mary Churchyard • English Bicknor, Forest of Dean District, Gloucestershire, England MEMORIAL ID 110101724 Daughter of Sir Robert de Muscegros of Hampstead... Wife and widow of Sir William de Mortimer of Bridgewater, Somerset, who died shortly before 30 June 1297... Secondly, wife of Sir John de Ferrers, son of Sir Robert de Ferrers and Eleanor de Bohun. They were married between 02 Feb 1298 and 13 Sept 1300... John died in France in 1312, possibly from poison...Thirdly, wife of Sir John de Brus, and had one daughter, Katherine, Wife and widow of Sir William de Mortimer of Bridgewater, Somerset, who died shortly before 30 June 1297. Secondly, wife of Sir John de Ferrers, son of Sir Robert de Ferrers and Eleanor de Bohun. They were married between 02 Feb 1298 and 13 Sept 1300, the date of the dispensation to remain married as John and her first husband were related in the third degree of kindred. They had two sons and two daughters: John, Sir Robert, Pernel, wife of Richard de Monmouth and Eleanor, wife of Sir Thomas de Lathom. John died in France in 1312, possibly from poison. Thirdly, wife of Sir John de Brus, and had one daughter, Katherine, who died before Hawise. According to the English Bicknor church, Hawise, living 1348, died in 1353 and there is a statue of her inside the chancel, although the death date is not certain. Family Members Spouse John de Ferrers 1271–1312 Children Eleanor de Ferrers Lathom Robert de Ferrers 1309–1350
   
10. Title: Robert de Ferrers and Eleanor de Bohun in Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
    Author: Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists, Line 57
    Note: Robert de Ferrers and Eleanor de Bohun in Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: Robert de Ferrers and Eleanor de Bohun in Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists, Line 57 [See document in the Memories section]
    
11. Title: Foundation for Medieval Genealogy: JOHN Ferrers of Chartley, Staffordshire, son of ROBERT de Ferrers Earl of Derby & his second wife Alianore de Bohun
    Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref402;
    Note: JOHN Ferrers of Chartley, Staffordshire, son of ROBERT de Ferrers Earl of Derby & his second wife Alianore de Bohun (Cardiff 20 Jun 1271-Gascony [Aug] 1312). He was summoned to Parliament in 1299, whereby he is held to have become Lord Ferrers. m (licence 1300]) as her second husband, HAWISE de Muscegros, widow of WILLIAM de Mortimer of Bridgewater, daughter and heiress of ROBERT de Muscegros of Stowell, Somerset & his wife Agnes --- (21 Dec 1276-[1340/50]). She married thirdly John de Bures. John & his wife had four children:
    
12. Title: John de Ferrers of Chartley in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref437 [See document in the Memories section]
    Publication: Name: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref437;
    Note: John de Ferrers of Chartley in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref437 [See document in the Memories section]
    Page: John de Ferrers of Chartley in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref437 [See document in the Memories section]
    
13. Title: Hawise de Muscegros, daughter of Robert de Muscegros in Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref402 [See document in the memories section]
    Publication: Name: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref402;
    Note: Hawise de Muscegros, daughter of Robert de Muscegros in Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref402 [See document in the memories section]
    Page: Hawise de Muscegros, daughter of Robert de Muscegros in Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ~https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftnref402 [See document in the memories section]