William de Saye

• Preferred Name: William de Saye^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]}
  
• Gender: M
  
• Death: 12 FEB 1272 in Rochester, Kent, England at LATI: N1.3886 LONG: E0.5055
  
• Birth: 12 FEB 1209 in West Greenwich, Kent, England at LATI: N1.4753 LONG: E0.012
  
• FSID: GH2V-W3R
  
• Temple+Ordinances: with note: Description: Completed
  
• Notes:

  === Life Sketch ===
  «b»Biography«/b»
  Sir William de Say, Constable of Rochester Castle was born before 1209; Of age in 1230. He married Sibyl Marshal, said to be a daughter of John Marshal, circa 1230; They had 2 sons (Sir William; & John) and 4 daughters (Alice, wife of William de la Forde; Hawise, wife of Sir John le Marshal; Agnes, wife of Sir Alexander de Cheney; & (unnamed), wife of John de Sudeley, 1st Lord Sudeley). Sir William de Say, Constable of Rochester Castle married Mary Unknown after 1253. Sir William de Say, Constable of Rochester Castle died circa 12 February 1272 at of Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, England.
  
  "Knt., of West Greenwich, Birling, Burham, Cudham, etc., Kent, Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, Edmonton, Middlesex, Long Stratton, Norfolk, Patricksburn and Street, Sussex, etc., Constable of Rochester Castle. He was in service beyond seas in 1230. In 1235 he leased the manor of Greenwich, Kent to Katherine, widow of Henry de Edelmeton, for 13 years. In 1238 he was going on a pilgrimage beyond seas. In 1242 he was going beyond seas with the king. His unnamed wife was living 14 August 1244, when she had three deer by gift of the king. In 1245 he was going to Wales on the king?s business. In 1250 he was given two deer by gift of the king. In 1253 he was going with the king to Gascony. He joined the Barons against King Henry III. He was taken prisoner at the siege of Rochester Castle, and his manors of Birling and Burham, Kent, were granted to Prince Edward 12 May 1264. He surrendered the county of Kent to Roger de Leybourne 8 August 1265. He was evidently restored to favor, as on 20 Nov. 1267, he had the grant of the marriage of John le Marshal, heir of Aline le Marshal."
  
  «b»Property
  Manor of Saye's Court«/b»
  "William his son succeeded him, and died anno 56 Henry III. holding this manor in capite by barony, and the repair of a house in Dover-castle, called, from its possessors, Saye's-tower. His son of the same name, accounted at the Exchequer for twenty-seven fees of the honour of Magminot; that is, twenty-six of the old feoffment and one of the new, which shews the large extent of his possessions. He died anno 23 king Edward I. possessed of this manor, leaving Geoffrey his son and heir, who married Idonea, daughter of William de Leyborne (who survived him) and died possessed of it, in the 15th of king Edward II. leaving Geoffrey de Saye, his son, who, in the 8th of king Edward III. obtained the king's charter for free warren for all his demean lands in his lordships of Greenwich, Deptford, &c. with the view of frankpledge and other privileges, and died in the 33d year of it, leaving William his son and heir, and Maud his wife, surviving, (daughter of Guy de Beauchamp, earl of Warwick) and three daughters, who afterwards became their brother's heirs, as will be further mentioned."
  
  «b»Sawbridgeworth Manor«/b»
  "In 1222 Geoffrey de Say, son of the last-mentioned Geoffrey, received the grant of a market to be held at Sawbridgeworth on Saturday. (fn. 18) By another grant the following year the day was changed to Friday. William de Say, son and successor of Geoffrey, probably inclosed the park, for in 1237 he was allowed ten bucks from the king's forest of Essex to place in his park of Sawbridgeworth. In 1245 he obtained a licence for free warren in his manor. The extent taken at his death in 1272 mentions the park and warren. William de Say, his son and successor, was presented before the commissioners of Edward I for having appropriated free warren on alien fees and on the lands of his tenants. He claimed the liberties of gallows, view of frankpledge, assize of bread and ale, pillory, tumbrel and prison at Sawbridgeworth as belonging to the honour of Mandeville and exercised by his ancestors. These were allowed him. William de Say died in 1295."
  
  1271
  William de Sey abstract of IPM
  Writ, 12 Feb. 56 Hen. III.
  William de Say, his son, age variously stated as 18 on the feast of St. Edmund the King last, and 19 on the same feast, is his heir. "the age of the heir is unknown to the jury, but he was in his mother's womb at the hour when the king went into Gascony."
  properties
  NORFOLK
  Strattun (manor)
  KENT .
  Burgham manor .. maintain part of the bridge of Rochester.. and a certain house in the castle of Dover.
  KENT
  Codham manor including .. Bokehurst .. Codham and Betred,
  Westgernewich manor
  KENT
  Berling alias Berlinges manor
  SUSSEX
  Strete manor
  HERTFORD
  Sabritteswrth manor
  CAMBRIDGE.
  Lintone manor
  SUSSEX.
  Hammes manor
  MIDDLESEX
  Edelmeton manor
  
  'Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry III, File 42', in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 1, Henry III, ed. J E E S Sharp (London, 1904), pp. 273-287 via British History Online or Internet Archive.
  
  123? “charter of William son of Geoffrey de Say, and Avice de Clare “ of property in Edmonton 1230x1272 wtns: Aunfrey de Fhering, seneshal, Stephen de Dunmoe, baliff, John Blund, William de la Forde, Thomas Picot, Richard Harulf, Peter de la Berewe, Richard de Gysors, Nicholas Marsh, Geoffrey his brother, William son of Geffrey, Laurance de la Forde”
  
  1260 May 19 William de Say to keep castle of Rochester 19 May from Calendar of Patent Rolls, Henry III: Volume 5, 1258-1266, ed. H C Maxwell Lyte (London, 1910)
  
  ca.1265 Charter of Wm de Say to William Ford of land in Edmonton..”to be held in free marriage with Alice, the donor’s sister” / from A Calendar of the Cartularies of John Pyel And Adam Fraunceys, an extensive tracking of Edmonton property titles , with many mentions of de Says, compiled by/for Adam Frauncys who brought Edmonton from de Says about 1362.
  
  Close rolls of the reign of Henry III have numerous entries for a William de Say. An expert in medieval Latin would be needed to interpret these but the indexer feels that many of them involve "gifts to" de Say. Among items which clearly mention relatives or properties are:
  1253 W de Say in Strete, Sussex
  1254 W de Say summoned of Hertford
  1263 W de Say in Edelmenton
  1264 Maria, wife of Wm de Say - manors of Berling, Burgham, Codeham and Bertre. Person originating document appears to be Gilbert de Clare of Glos. and Hert.
  1272 Maria, wife of W de Say "defunct"
  Great Britain. Court of Chancery, Great Britain. Public Record Office, and England. Sovereign (1216-1272 : Henry III). Close Rolls of the Reign of Henry III. London: H.M. Stationery Off., 1902- https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010427024
  
  Say, William 1209-1270
  123? “charter of William son of Geoffrey de Say, and Avice de Clare “ of property in Edmonton 1230x1272 wtns: Aunfrey de Fhering, seneshal, Stephen de Dunmoe, baliff, John Blund, William de la Forde,

• m. 1230 in Greenwich, Kent, England

1. William de Saye VI, b. 20 NOV 1235 in Greenwich, Kent, England     d. 16 DEC 1295 in West Greenwich, Kent, England
2. Agnes de Say, b. 1250 in Newtimber, Sussex, England, United Kingdom     d. 1296 in Horsham, Sussex, England, United Kingdom
3. Hawise de Saye, b. 1254 in Hingham, Norfolk, England, United Kingdom     d. 1318 in Hingham, Norfolk, England

• m. 1269 in Elsenham, Essex, England

1. Title: Calendar of Patent Rolls, Henry III: Volume 5, 1258-1266
   Author: 1260, membranes 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1', in Calendar of Patent Rolls, Henry III: Volume 5, 1258-1266, ed. H C Maxwell Lyte (London, 1910), pp. 65-98.
   Publication: Name: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-pat-rolls/hen3/vol5/pp65-98;
   Page: appointed keeper of Rochester Castle
   
2. Title: William de Say in Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors
   Author: https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p375.htm#i11252
   Publication: Name: https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p375.htm#i11252;
   Note: Sir William de Say, Constable of Rochester Castle (1,2,3,4,5,6) Last Edited 4 Apr 2020 M, #11252, b. before 1209, d. circa 12 February 1272 Father Sir Geoffrey de Say, Magna Charta Baron (7,8) b. c 1180, d. 19 Aug 1230 Mother Hawise de Clare (7,8) b. c 1184, d. bt 1235 - 1242 Sir William de Say, Constable of Rochester Castle was born before 1209; Of age in 1230. (2) He married Sibyl Marshal, daughter of John Marshal, circa 1230; They had 2 sons (Sir William; & John) and 4 daughters (Alice, wife of William de la Forde; Hawise, wife of Sir John le Marshal; Agnes, wife of Sir Alexander de Cheney; & (unnamed), wife of John de Sudeley, 1st Lord Sudeley). (3,4,5) Sir William de Say, Constable of Rochester Castle married Mary after 1253. (2,4) Sir William de Say, Constable of Rochester Castle died circa 12 February 1272 at of Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, England. (2,4) Family 1: Sibyl Marshal d. a Nov 1253 Children: (Miss) de Say+ (2,9,4,5) Agnes de Say+ (10,11,2,12,4) b. c 1250 Hawise de Say+ (13,2,3,4,6) b. c 1253, d. a 1318 Sir William de Say+(2,4) b. 20 Nov 1253, d. b 16 Sep 1295 Family 2: Mary d. bt 10 Aug 1280 - 1285 Citations: 1. [S2714] Unknown author, Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, by F. L. Weis, 4th Ed., p. 17. 2. [S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 497-498. 3. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 287. 4. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 562-563. 5. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. V, p. 84-85. 6. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. V, p. 255. 7. [S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 495-496. 8. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 559-560. 9. [S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. IV, p. 135. 10. [S15] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, p. 690. 11. [S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 422. 12. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 456. 13. [S5] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 516.
   
3. Title: Calendar of the Cartularies of John Pyel And Adam Fraunceys
   Author: O'Connor, S. J, and Royal Historical Society (Great Britain). A Calendar of the Cartularies of John Pyel And Adam Fraunceys. London: Offices of the Royal Historical Society, University College London, 1993.
   Publication: Name: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015032960778&view=1up&seq=256;
   Note: extensive abstract of land charters of Adam Fraunceys who purchased some of the de Say properties in Edmonton, Middlesex and had a compilation made of the property transactions up through the 14th century. Entry 271 establishes connection between de Say and Avis Clare and Edmonton; there are several dozen de Say references.
   Page: descent of Edmonton Manor
   
4. Title: William de Say IPM
   Author: 'Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry III, File 42', in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 1, Henry III, ed. J E E S Sharp (London, 1904), pp. 273-287 via British History Online or Internet Archive.
   Publication: Name: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol1/pp273-287;
   Note: Writ, 12 Feb. 56 Hen. III. William de Say, his son, age variously stated as 18 on the feast of St. Edmund the King last, and 19 on the same feast, is his heir. Hertford. Exent, Saturday after St. Matthias (?) 56 [Hen. III.]. Sabritteswrth manor (extent given of the part which was of William de Say), tenure unspecified.
   Page: death date, heir, property owned
   
5. Title: The Victoria History of the County of Sussex The Rape and Honour of Hastings
   Author: The Victoria History of the County of Sussex v. 9. The Rape and Honour of Hastings by L F Salzman. Oxford University Press 1937.
   Publication: Name: https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015068988735;
   Page: shows descent of Hamsey property
   
6. Title: Close Rolls of the Reign of Henry III
   Author: Great Britain. Court of Chancery, Great Britain. Public Record Office, and England. Sovereign (1216-1272 : Henry III). Close Rolls of the Reign of Henry III. London: H.M. Stationery Off., 1902.
   
7. Title: Patrixborne, Kent
   Author: Edward Hasted, 'Parishes: Patrixborne', in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent: Volume 9 (Canterbury, 1800), pp. 277-286. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-kent/vol9/pp277-286 [accessed 26 July 2020].
   Publication: Name: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-kent/vol9/pp277-286;
   Page: shows connection between William de Say and Alex Cheyneythrough property transmission