Payne De Roët II

• Preferred Name: Payne De Roët II^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9]}
  
• Alternate Name: Guienne
  
• Alternate Name: Paon De Ruet
  
• Alternate Name: Payne Roet
  
• Alternate Name: Gilles
  
• Gender: M
  
• Title (Nobility): 1347 in Calais, Picardie, France at LATI: N0.9512 LONG: E0.8586 with note: Description: Sir Knight (knighted by Queen Phillippa's household, who was wife of Edward III)
  
• Birth: ABT 1310 in Roet, Hainault, Belgium at LATI: N0.5 LONG: E0.8333
  
• Burial: 1380 in St Paul's Cathedral, London, England at LATI: N1.5137 LONG: E0.0996
  
• Death: 1380 in Gent, Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium at LATI: N1.05 LONG: E0.72
  
• Occupation: In service to Marguerite, Empress of the HRE, by request to Queen Phillipa, sister of Marguerite Empress of the HREABT 1349 in Hainaut, Belgium at LATI: N0.5 LONG: E0.8333
  
• Occupation: Aquitaine King of Arms
  
• FSID: LDW4-XKY
  
• Notes:

  === Life Sketch ===
  He was in the entourage of Philippa of Hainaut who travelled to London in late 1327, to marry the young King Edward III. So Sir Paon’s origins and career are of interest to biographers of the poet, all the more so since it very likely that Geoffrey and
  Philippa left descendants who are alive today.
  
  There is, however, no doubt that Katherine, the mistress and then the wife of John ‘of Gaunt’, duke of Lancaster, was Sir Paon’s daughter.
  
  The descendants of John and Katherine are prolific. Yet no-one, has succeeded in establishing Katherine’s parentage. For those engaged in tracing the complete ancestry of the Tudor,
  Stuart and Hanoverian kings and queens, Sir Paon is the first person that they encounter who presents an impasse. The challenge to find a solution is considerable.
  
  The chronicler, Froissart, identified Katherine’s father as Sir Paon de Ruet. . It is likely that he was born in the early years of the fourteenth century. We also we know that Sir Paon
  was present at the siege of Calais in 1347 (Lettenhove, 1867-1877, 5: 215) and was still alive in 1351 (Lettenhove, 1867-1877, 15: 199-400). He was perhaps Guienne King of
  Arms, but no contemporary records exist to prove this.
  There is evidence that Paon was ‘landed’, rather than being an impecunious adventurer.
  In 1411, his grandson Sir Thomas Swynford (Katherine’s son by her first husband, Sir Hugh Swynford) tried to retrieve an inheritance in Hainault that had come to him through
  his mother.
  .
  Manly (1926) has made a convincing case that Sir Paon de Ruet was the same person as Sir Gilles de Roet (dit Paon or Paonnet), named seven times in the cartulary of the counts
  of Hainault (Devilliers, 1881-1896). The life-events of Paon and Gilles coincide quite remarkably. They both bear the same family name (albeit spelt in rather different ways).
  So perhaps we should be searching for a Gilles rather than a Paon, and perhaps we should try to establish whether or not Gilles can be linked to the family of the Lords of Rœulx in Hainaut. As Cook (1919) notes, ‘a great variety of spellings for Rœulx is found in the ancient documents, of which the commonest is Rues; others are Ruet, Rueth, Ruez, Roes, Roelx, Roeld [and] Ruelt’.
  
  It would, however, be unwise to pursue this line of enquiry if the name ‘Gilles’ seldom or never appeared in the genealogy of the Lords of Rœulx. After all, it is a far from common forename. However, it does appear in their genealogy for several generations. The circumstantial evidence for a link between Paon de Ruet and the lords of Rœulx grows stronger.
  
  The arms of the Lords (later Counts) of Rœulx play upon the word ‘roue’ (wheel): ‘vert, a lion argent, armed [teeth and claws] and langued gules, holding in its dexter paw a
  wheel’. Cook (1919), says ‘the modern family of Roeult, dit Resteau, has for the Roeult quarterings, Gules, three wheels argent’. The tomb of Thomas Chaucer, Geoffrey’s son, at Ewelme Church, Oxfordshire also displays the three wheels. None of this provides proof of a dynastic link, only strong supporting evidence as to Philippa’s origin.
  
  There is no doubt that the Lords of Rœulx sprang from a younger branch of the Counts of Hainaut. Over two centuries, they married their sons and daughters into the families of
  most of the prominent Low Countries’ nobility, often thereby increasing their landholdings. Their apogee was around the beginning of the fourteenth century. By the middle of the century, their power had vanished, their lands had been dispersed and the title had passed to another family.
  
  Paon, or Gilles, should he belong to the family of the
  Lords of Rœulx, might be a victim of the family’s collapse from power into penury and obscurity – but a survivor, with patronage from the Queen-to-be Philippa, across the
  Channel in England.
  Unfortunately, the genealogy of the last members of the Rœulx family is far from clear. The account given by Lejeune (1890) appears to be the most authoritative and complete.
  The penultimate lord of Rœulx was Gilles (called ‘Rigaut’), living 1288, died in 1308. He married Isabeau de Ligne, Lady of Montreuil. Lejeune gives them a large brood of children, among who was another Gilles de Rœulx, just possibly the Gilles, (dit Paon) de Ruet, father-in-law of John ‘of Gaunt’ and Geoffrey Chaucer.
  
  In summary, our quarry is perhaps a cadet of the family of the Lords of Rœulx, noble enough to be in the entourage of Philippa of Hainaut, to be knighted and to play a part (albeit not prominent) in fourteenth century society. He was probably born around 1309, and aged about eighteen when, as a young esquire, he came with Philippa of Hainaut to England. He may have married around 1340, and have children born in that decade. His grandson laid claims to lands in Hainaut. One of his daughters was the mistress, then the wife, of the richest nobleman in England. He was, it seems, no parvenu. His origins, however, remain elusive.
  
  1. See Nicolas (1843) who notes that Weever’s Ancient Funeral Monuments (1767) records that on Sir Paon’s tomb in St. Paul’s Cathedral, London, there was once the inscription ‘Hic Jacet Paganus Roet Guyenne Rex Armorum Pater Catherine Ducisse Lancastriae’.
  
  2. Calendar of the Patent Rolls, Henry IV, vol. 4, Oct. 5th 1411, quoted by Manly (1926) p.54.
  
  References
  Cook, H S (1919). Chaucerian Papers – XII. Sir Paon de Ruet and Chaucer. Transactions of the Connecticut Academy of Arts and Sciences, New Haven (Conn.), 23: 55-63.
  
  Crow, Martin & Olson, Clair (1966). Chaucer Life-Records. Oxford, p.69.
  
  Devilliers, Léopold (1881-1896, editor). Cartulaire des Comtes de Hainaut, 6 vols. Brussels.
  
  Lejeune, T (1890). Recherches historiques sur les Roeulx.… Annales du Cercle Archéologique de Mons,
  32: 115-384.
  
  Lettenhove, Kervyn de (1867-1877, editor). Oeuvres de Froissart, 25 vols. Brussels.
  
  Manly, J M (1926). Some New Light on Chaucer. New York.
  
  Moncreiffe, Iain (1983). The descendants of Chaucer. The Genealogist, 4 (2): 131-136.
  
  Nicolas, Harris (1843). Life of Chaucer. London.
  
  Paon de Roet's tomb
  Paon de Roet's tomb was in Old St Paul's Cathedral, near Sir John Beauchamp's tomb (commonly called "Duke Humphrey's"). It was destroyed, along with many others (including that of John of Gaunt and B
  
  BIO
  BIO: from http://cybergata.com/roots/21306.htm as of 6/18/2019
  
  Sir Payne Roët Knight
  Born: Hainaut
  Marriage: Unknown
  
  Information about this person:
  
  • Web Reference: Katherine Swynford.
  Kathern Swy
  
  Life
  Born about 1310 in Hainaut, he was "probably christened as Gilles,"[3] in English 'Giles' and in Latin 'Egidius', a name used in each generation of the knightly family who were feudal lords of the tow
  
  === Payne or Giles DeRoet Guienne King Of A ===
  Payne or Giles DeRoet Guienne King Of Arms-3877 is the 20th great grandfather of Margaret Amarulis (Peggy) Bartholomew-2.
  
  === References ===
  References
  Sir Payne Roët, in Lundy, Darryl. The Peerage: A genealogical survey of the peerage of Britain as well as the royal families of Europe.
  ↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 CHAUCER, Geoffrey (c.1343-1400), of London and ?of Greenwich, Kent., in The History of Parliament.
  
  === Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: ===
  Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: 2004-01-04 09:57:45 PST
  Someone asked about the ancestry of sir Paon/Pagan/Payen de Ruet/Roet/Roelt.
  A recent article in the Foundations Magazine of the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy suggests that this unknown Knight was a member of the ROEULX family of the Hainaut where the name is also spelt as Ruet/Roet/ Ruelt - it points to a certain Gilles de Roeulx as the Pagan of English history...there is however no definite proof of his identity but the circumstantial proof seems quite compelling according to the reviewer.
  Note: I already have Payne as son of another Payne Roet, based on various people on the internet. I find a Gilles-Rigaud de Roeulx on Leo van de Pas' data files based on information in ES. Since the senior male line of Gille's elder brother Eustace appears to die out with Eustace in 1288 (Eustace had a son Eustace who died before him about Dec 1287, and a daughter Marie who was his heir), I think the Roet descent indicated in the SGM post above is probably through Gilles-Rigaud. Therefore I am making Payne Roet, senior, a son of that Gilles-Rigaud (at least it is pretty close to the ancestry indicated above).
  
  === multiple discussions and sources in a genealogy blog ===
  https://soc.genealogy.medieval.narkive.com/qe2mmzZ0/roeulx-records
  
  https://soc.genealogy.medieval.narkive.com/qe2mmzZ0/roeulx-records
  
  === multiple names ===
  Paon de Ruet is found early, in a legal document, in the form Paganus de Rodio - referring to Rodium, the mediaeval Latin form corresponding to the Roeulx, or Le RÅ“ulx, the name of a town of 3000 inhabitants, 8 miles north-east of Mons, on the highway leading from Mons to Nivelle. Paon de Ruet may have been impelled to seek his fortune in England by the recital of the exploits of Fastre de Ruet, who accompanied John of Beaumont in 1326, when, with three hundred followers, he went to assist the English against the Scots. Fastre was the younger brother of the last lord of Roeulx descended from the Counts of Hainault. He and his brother Eustace fell into pecuniary straits, and were obliged to alienate their landed possessions. Fastre died in 1331, and was buried in the abbey church of Roeulx, while his brother Eustace survived till 1336. Paon was, like Fastre, a younger brother - possibly of a collateral line.
  
  As the king was in the North, a number of the Flemings returned home without proceeding further than London, but Paon de Ruet was one of those who remained in England in the retinue of Philippa of Hainaut, accompanying the young queen in her departure from Valenciennes to join her youthful husband Edward III in England at the close of 1327. His name does not appear in the list of knights who accompanied the queen from Hainault, however, described by Froissart to be among additional knights referred to as 'pluissier jone esquier'. Speght (1598)[3] prefixed to his history a genealogical tree which began: 'Paganus de Rouet Hannoniensis, aliter dictus Guien Rex Armorum' describing de Ruet as Guienne King of Arms. Upon the coronation of Henry the Fifth (1413), Sir William Bruges held the same title in the fifth year of the King's reign (Edmondson 1. 104) and the same monarch was accompanied to France before Agincourt by a herald bearing that name (Wylie, Reign of Henry the Fifth 1. 493).
  
  In 1347, Ruet was sent to the siege of Calais, and was one of two knights deputed by Queen Philippa to conduct out of town the citizens whom she had saved.
  
  [Froissart, 5.215 : "Et au matin elle fist donner a casqun sys nobles [say, $150], et Ies fist conduire hors de l'oost par messire Sanse d'Aubrecicourt et messire Paon de Ruet, si avent que il vorrent, et que il fu avis as deus chevaliers que il estoient hors dou peril, et au departir il les commanderent a Dieu, et retournerent li chevalier en l'oost."] He had returned to the lands of Hainault, probably by 1349, and Katherine was born the following year.
  
  === Sources ===
  Source Par Jean Froissart,Auguste Scheler,Académie royale des sciences, des lettres et des beaux-arts de Belgique:
  "... Nous voyons Edouard III, dès le commencement de son règne, combler de ses faveurs les barons du Hainaut, en même temps que la reine Philippe s'entoure de gentes damoiselles venues avec elle de ce bon et doux pays.
  Les chevaliers entrés au service du roi d'Angleterre sont Michel de Ligne, Robert de Fiennes, Nicolas d'Aubrecicourt, Guillaume de Saint-Omer, Wulfard de Ghistelles, Thierri de la Croix, Simon de Haie, plus connu sous le nom de Simon de Mirabel, et Paonnet de Roet, dont la fille fut plus tard duchesse de Lancastre et l'aïeule des Tudor. Parmi les écuyers, on cite Watelet de Mauny, Robert de Gages, Robert de Maule, et avec eux deux jeunes Bretons, nommés Olivier et Thibaut du Guesclin. Watelet de Hainaut (serait-ce Watelet de Mauny?) est le page chargé de la garde des garennes de la reine, pagius custos leporariorum dominae reginae. "

• m. MAY 1366 in Westminster, Middlesex, England

1. Katherine de Roet of Lancaster, b. 25 NOV 1350 in Somme, Picardie, France     d. 10 MAY 1403 in Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England, United Kingdom

1. Title: Ancestry of Sir Paon de Ruet
   Author: The Foundation for Medieval Genealogy Foundations (2003) 1 (1): 54-56 © Copyright FMG
   Publication: Name: https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/103296465;
   
2. Title: Legacy NFS Source: "Sir" Payne Roet -
   Author: The Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by WalterLee Sheppard Jr, 5th Edition, 1999, Page number: 161-17
   Note: ABBR The Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr, 5th Edition, 1999
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:3244726613
   
3. Title: Paon de Roët, "Find A Grave Index"
   Author: "Find A Grave Index," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVGH-BQ94 : 5 June 2019), Paon de Roët, ; Burial, London, City of London, Greater London, England, Saint Paul's Cathedral; citing record ID 121410570, Find a Gr
   Publication: Name: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVGH-BQ94;
   
4. Title: Legacy NFS Source: "Sir" Payne Roet - birth:
   Author: The Royal Ancestry Bible, Michel L. Call, Copyright 2006
   
5. Title: Pedigree Charts in "The Genealogie or Pedegree" by Sir William Segar, Garter
   Author: Book: Coles Of Devon, 1867 (25.html) by James Edwin-Cole Source 7:www Genealogy or pedegree of the .... Sir William Cole... written in 1630 by Segar, William, Sir, -1633
   Publication: Name: http://ephotocaption.com/a/25/1391150.pdf;
   
6. Title: Legacy NFS Source: "Sir" Payne Roet -
   Author: Royalty for Commoners, 2nd Ed; Roderick W Stuart {1988}, Page number: I-23
   Note: Source Media Type: Book
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2736742394
   
7. Title: Dictionary of National Biography, Volumes 1-20, 22
   Author: Stephen, Sir Leslie, ed.; London, England: Oxford University Press; Dictionary of National Biography, Volumes 1-20, 22; Volume: Vol 22; Page: 1269
   Publication: Name: https://search.ancestry.com/collections/1981/records/10106820;
   
8. Title: Legacy NFS Source: "Sir" Payne Roet -
   Author: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by FrederickLewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 19, Page number: 1-31
   
9. Title: Wikipedia
   Publication: Name: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paon_de_Roet;