Roger Carminow

• Preferred Name: Roger Carminow^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]}
  
• Gender: M
  
• http://familysearch.org/v1/TitleOfNobility: Lord of Trelowith
  
• FSID: LV9J-4TW
  
• AFN: with note: Description: 9T3D-VG
  
• Birth: 1129 in Trenowyth, Cornwall, England at LATI: N0.2512 LONG: E5.0668
  
• Death: 1173 in Cornwall, England, UK at LATI: N0.2512 LONG: E5.0668
  
• Notes:

  === Held one Knights fee in 1173. ===
  Held one Knights fee in 1173.
  
  === Ancestral File Number: 9T3D-VG ===
  Ancestral File Number: 9T3D-VG

• m. ABT 1149 in Trenowyth, Cornwall, England

1. Roger Carminow, b. ABT 1155 in Trenowyth, Cornwall, England     d. ABT 1222 in Trenowyth, Cornwall, England

1. Title: Wikiwand: Cornish heraldry
   Note: Cornish heraldry is the form of coats of arms and other heraldic bearings and insignia used in Cornwall, United Kingdom. While similar to English, Scottish and Welsh heraldry, Cornish heraldry has its own distinctive features. Cornish heraldry typically makes use of the tinctures, sable (black) and or (gold), and also uses certain creatures like Cornish choughs. It also uses the Cornish language extensively for mottoes and canting arms. Officials and law Carminow v. Scrope The arms blazoned Azure, a bend or, which were the subject of the cases The arms blazoned Azure, a bend or, which were the subject of the cases One of the earliest heraldic law cases brought in England was the 1389 case of Scrope v. Grosvenor. Scrope had found Grosvenor using the same arms as him, Azure a bend or, and set out to prove his sole right to use them. In heraldic law no two unrelated families in the same country are permitted to bear the same arms. Following a long court case it was decided that Scrope had the right to the arms and Grosvenor was forced to change his arms to Azure a garb or. It became known however that a Cornish knight by the name of Carminow was also using the disputed arms. Carminow, seeing Scrope's use of his arms, challenged the right of Scrope to bear the arms. In this case, the constable of England declared that both claimants had established their right to the arms. Carminow had proven that his family had borne the arms "from the time of King Arthur", while the Scrope family had only used the arms "from the Norman Conquest of England". (Neither of these claims to such antiquity were in fact possible as the era of heraldry did not start until the late 12th century). The two families were, however, considered of different heraldic nations, Scrope of England, Carminow of Cornwall, and as such could both bear the same arms. As stated in the records of the case, Cornwall was in effect deemed a separate nation, "a large land formerly bearing the name of a kingdom." John Vivian and Henry Drake, in their preface to the Visitation of the County of Cornwall, commented as follows: "Cornwall may be considered pre-eminent in the antiquity of its family heraldry, since it was admitted in court during the memorable Scrope and Grosvenor controversy that the same arms, Azure a bend or, had remained in the family of Carminow from King Arthur."
   
2. Title: World Family Tree
   Author: World Family Tree (Broderbund).
   
3. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Roger De Carminow - birth-name: Roger De Carminow
   Author: media.type.Ancestry.com, OneWorldTree
   Note: birth-name: Roger De Carminow birth-name: Roger De Carminow aka-name: Carminow aka-name: Lord Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow birth: 1129; birth: 1129; birth: 1129; birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England death: death: death: death: death: death: birth-name: Roger De Carminow birth-name: Roger De Carminow aka-name: Carminow aka-name: Lord Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow birth: 1129; birth: 1129; birth: 1129; birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England death: death: death: death: death: death: birth-name: Roger De Carminow birth-name: Roger De Carminow aka-name: Carminow aka-name: Lord Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow aka-name: Roger Carminow birth: 1129; birth: 1129; birth: 1129; birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England birth: 1129; Cornwall, England death: death: death: death: death: death:
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:3244467101
   
4. Title: Extinct Cornish Families, Part II, by Mr. W.C. Wade: Carminow Family
   Author: Read December 18th, 1890. Published in Transactions of the Plymouth Institution & Devon and Cornwall Natural History Society, 1890-1891: Polwhele asserts that the first member of the Carminow family was living in A.D. 889, but a much higher antiquity has been claimed for the family; for Cleaveland, in his History of the House of Courtenay, states that a Carminow led a body of British troops to oppose the landing of Julius Cæsar.
   Publication: Name: http://patp.us/reading/cornish2.aspx;
   Note: Without doubt the family of Carminow was one of the most ancient in Cornwall, and they are creditied with having resided in Mawgan-in-Menage, near Helston, before the Conquest. Their name is not mentioned in Domesday. The late Mr. J. Jope Rogers, of Penrose, contributed two valuable papers to the transactions of the Royal Institution of Cornwall, relating to the eldest branch of this family, to which I am much indebted. He states that in Mawgan-in-Menage Church, which was entirely rebuilt in 1865, is a transept which has always been called the Carminow aisle. The south wall contained a low-arched recess, which had long sheltered a cross-legged effigy of a knight, carved in freestone, much defaced by time, but bearing on the shield distinct traces of the simple armorial bearings of the Carminows; viz., azure, a bend or. A female effigy of the same stone, but rather more mutilated, and reported to represent the knight's lady, lay on the ledge of the wall, near his. In the stone coffin beneath was found the skeleton of a man laid out as in burial. I may here remark that in an alteration of the chancel of Brougham Church, Westmoreland, in 1846, the coffin of an ancient member of the Brougham family was unvocered, whose tomb had always been called the "Crusader's," when it was found that the body had been interred with the legs crossed, as is generally represented on Crusaders' tombs, in memory, as Stowe says, of the oath they had performed of fighting for the cross. The tomb at Mawgan-in-Menage is that of Sir Roger Carminow, the most distinguished member of his family. He was the grandson of Robert Carminow, of whom the first regular record is traceable in Col. Vivian and Dr. Drake's Cornish pedigrees. surname of his wife, whose figure lies beside his, is lost; but her Christian name was Joanna, which seemed afterwards to have become a favourite one in this family. Sir Roger's sister Maud married Sir Robert Heligan of Heligan, a family long ago extinct; and their son married Margaret, daughter of Sir William De Dunstanville, of Tehidy, whose race has long been extinguished in the male line. Sir Roger, who died in 1308, must have been comparatively a young man when he joined Prince Edward (immediately afterwards King Edward I) at the last Crusade, in 1270-72. He is stated to have held a knight's fee of £20 per annum in 1294, and five years later he was taxed for his part of Winnianton, Merthyr, and Tamerton manors; and again in 1303 for the same lands on the marriage of the eldest daughter of Edward I, Joan of Acre, who was born in Palestine in 1272, and who married her second husband Ralph De Monthermer in this year. On the death of Sir Roger the king received the homage of his son and heir Sir Oliver, who is described as being thirty years of age at his father's death; "for the lands held by him and his father in capite, and gave him full seizin." In capite signifies in tenure of knight's service direct from the king. The armour of Sir Roger at Mawgan resembles that of Gilbert Marischal, Earl of Pembroke, in the Temple Church, London. The figure is clothed in chain mail from head to foot except the knees, which are protected. The right hand clasps the sword-hilt, while the left holds the sword-belt as if the sword had just been sheathed. The head rests on a large helmet, and the feet on a couchant lion. There were other Cornish families represented at the last Crusade, and among these was one of the Blanchminsters of Binamy, near Stratton, whose death in Palestine is somewhat humourously referred to in one of Mr. Robert Hawker's poems. It seems strange that men who were living in remote Cornwall should have felt impelled to journey across Europe to engage in a war for the possession of Palestine. Some recent eminent writers have derided the Crusades as having simply originated in popular delusion, folly, and superstition. If we put aside for the moment any consideration of the religious sentiment which undoubtedly influenced large masses of people who enthusiastically set out for the East, there exists a solid justification for the efforts which all Christendom made to meet the Saracens on that battle-ground which seemed destined to decide the relative power of the Crescent and the Cross. Mahomet had commanded the spread of Islam over all the countries of the earth by conquest or by faith, and his followers had conquered Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica, as well as a large part of Spain, and had only been checked at Tours, in France, by Charles Martel in 732. We can very well understand how the announcement in 1095, of the refusal of the Saracens to allow the Christians to even continue their pilgrimages to the Holy City must have inflamed not only every member of the Christian Church, but also every ruler in Christendom, who considered this final act of aggression, so characteristec of Mohammedan power, as a fresh signal of that inevitable warfare between the civilization of Christianity and the power of semi-barbaric despotism, of which all Europe stood in constant and alarmed expectation. Of Sir Roger Carminow's deeds at the Crusades we know nothing. He doubtless shared in those successful engagements in which King Edward was concerned, and we may assume that he was a witness of the devotion of Queen Elinor when, as chroniclers allege, she sucked the poison from her wounded lord. I have previously reffered to the Crusader's son, Sir Oliver Carminow, who was a Knight of the Shire in 1314, and served as Sheriff of Cornwall and as Keeper of Launceston Castle. He was possessed of many manors, and it is probable that in his time the family possessed its greatest power and wealth. He was twice married, first to Elizabeth Pomeroy, a daughter of the Cornish branch of that family. It is stated that Henry Pomeroy, lord of the manor of Tregony, built the castle there for John, Earl of Cornwall (afterwards King John), in opposition to his brother King Richard, then beyond the seas in the Holy War. He was descended from Ralph Pomeroy, who was a companion of William the Conqueror, and who was such a favourite of William's that he received fifty-eight lordships from him, of which Tregony and Week St. Mary formed two. The Pomeroys have long been extinct. By his first wife Sir Oliver Carminow had several sons and daughters, to some of whose alliances I shall presently refer. His second wife was Isould, daughter of Sir Reginald, sometimes called Raynold de Ferrers, of the great Devonshire house of Ferrers, now extinct. By her Sir Oliver had one daughter, Margaret, who married Sir John Petyt, of Ardevora, in Philleigh, at one time a family of great note in the county, and whose allusive family motto is well known, Qui s'estime petit deviendra grande -- "Who esteems himself little will become great." Their descendants intermarried with members of the Cornish families of Godolphin, Granville, Killigrew, Tresahar, and Beville; and the Petyts had previously intermarried with Erchdekne and Trenowth, all of which families are now extinct. Sir Oliver's sister Beatrice married Sir William Ferrers of Bere Ferrers. Thus was a double link formed between the two families, and the arms of Ferrers and Carminow impaled together are still observable in Bere Ferris Church, commemorating the two marriages of five and a half centuries ago. Sir Oliver's brother Sir John, who died in 1331, married the daughter and heiress of Sir John Glynn, in Cardinham, an ancient family which became extinct in the elder line at this period; and the family estates were added to the already great possessions of the Carminows, who at one time or another seem to have held more manors in Cornwall that any three other Cornish families, and whose sons and daughters appear to have made the best matches of their day. The Carminows must have been a handsome and fascinating race, since they were so sought after in marriage by the wealthiest and most distinguished of their neighbours. No portrait or description remains of any member of the family, male or female, but we can make the above deduction from the self-evident facts. In reference to the Glyns it is interesting to note that a younger branch of the Glyns bought back the seat of their ancestors at Glyn, but that branch also is now extinct...
   
5. Title: Roger De Carminowe, "Find A Grave Index"
   Author: "Find A Grave Index," database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVL7-L31Y : 25 May 2022), Roger De Carminowe, ; Burial, , ; citing record ID 91299062, Find a Grave, http://www.findagrave.com.
   Publication: Name: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVL7-L31Y;
   
6. Title: World Family Tree, Vol. 18
   Author: Genealogy.com, World Family Tree, Vol. 18, Tree #467.
   
7. Title: Visitations of Cornwall (Partial)
   Author: Unknown, Visitations of Cornwall (Partial), Page 72.
   
8. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Roger De Carminow -
   Author: Ancestral File (R), The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Copyright (c) 1987, June 1998, data as of 5 January 1998
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2030200108
   
9. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Roger De Carminow - Published information: birth: about 1129; Saint Mewan, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom
   Note: Published information: birth: about 1129; Saint Mewan, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom Published information: death: after 1173; England, United Kingdom Published information: birth-name: Roger Carminow Published information: male
   Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2036922561
   
10. Title: Legacy NFS Source: Roger De Carminow -
    Author: Source 5 (please edit title)
    Page: Migrated from user-supplied source citation: urn:familysearch:source:2644080679
    
11. Title: Book - Visitations of Cornwall
    Author: Google Books
    Note: Roger Carninow, of Carminow alive 1173
    
12. Title: Roots Web World Connect Project
    Author: Roots Web World Connect Project, database: :3103374.
    
13. Title: Geni: Roger De Carminowe
    Publication: Name: https://www.geni.com/people/Roger-De-Carminowe/6000000002135008814;
    Note: Roger De Carminowe (Carminowe) Birthdate: 1129 (44) Birthplace: Trenowyth, Cornwall, England Death: Died 1173 in Cornwall, UK Immediate Family: Husband of Alma Dominica Carminow Father of Roger Carminow Managed by: Private User Last Updated: November 8, 2015