John de Grey

• Preferred Name: John de Grey^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]}
  
• Gender: M
  
• Occupation: vice-justice of ChesterBET 1296 AND 1297 in , Cheshire, England at LATI: N3.1827 LONG: E2.5305
  
• Christening: 1258 in Wilton, Wiltshire, England at LATI: N1.08 LONG: E1.864
  
• Death: 28 OCT 1323 in Denbigh, Denbighshire, Wales at LATI: N3.1829 LONG: E3.4446
  
• Occupation: Lord Ordainer1310
  
• FSID: 9SJW-NCY
  
• Birth: 1258 in Wilton, Wiltshire, England at LATI: N1.08 LONG: E1.864
  
• Nickname:
  
• Occupation: Justicier of North Wales and Keeper of the Kings Castles in those lands.1315 with note: CP V6 p 174
  
• Burial: 18 NOV 1323 in Denbigh, Denbighshire, Wales at LATI: N3.1829 LONG: E3.4446 with note: family search
  
• Notes:

  === Life Sketch ===
  New Information:
  
  • Background Information: Wife of John de Grey.
  royalancestry AT msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.0201151600.4392e754 AT posting.google.com>...
  Dear Newsgroup ~
  
  In the wake of the new discovery of Theobald de Verdun's wife, Margery de Bohun, new attention has been turned to the baronial families of Verdun and Bohun. As indicated by Complete Peerage, Theobald de Verdun's step-mother, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, is thought to have been a Bohun, she having sealed with those arms as reported by Complete Peerage sub Verdun. Chris Philips reported his findings on this matter in a post today.
  
  As it turns out, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, does in fact appear to have been a Bohun. My research indicates that Eleanor evidently had as her maritagium the manor of Debden, Essex (a Bohun manor), which property she in turn conveyed as a widow in 1275/6 to John de Grey, of Wilton, co. Hereford, and his wife, Maud. The fine conveying this property is found in Essex Feet of Fines, vol. 2, pg. 13. At his death years later, John de Grey is stated to have held the manor of Debden of Eleanor de Verdun by the service of a rose, the standard service for property granted in marriage in this period (see Cal. IPM, vol. 6, pg. 311). As such, it seems rather clear that John de Grey's wife, Maud, was the daughter of John de Verdun, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun.
  
  We can be reasonably certain that Maud de Grey was Eleanor de Verdun's daughter, as Eleanor being a Bohun surely had the manor of Debden in marriage, and in turn passed it along to her daughter, Maud. In this time period, a woman's maritagium almost always fell to her descendants, unless she happened to be childless, when she sometimes conveyed it away to strangers. In Eleanor's case, we know that she had several other male children, so the odds that she would convey her maritagium to the Grey family without there being a kinship is virtually slim to none. Also, it appears that John de Grey and his wife, Maud, were small children at the time of Eleanor de Verdun's fine. Complete Peerage indicates that John de Grey was born about 1268 (he being aged 40 at his father's death in 1308). Eleanor de Verdun's other known child, Humphrey, was born in 1267. It would be odd for Eleanor to convey her property to children, unless of course one of the parties was her own child.
  
  Following John de Grey's death, the manor of Debden, Essex was in turn held by John and Maud de Grey's son and heir, Henry de Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 8, pg. 261), as well as by a later Henry Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 17, pg. 253). At the later Henry de Grey's death, he is stated to hold the manor of "Weldebernys" in Debden of the Countess of Hereford (a Bohun descendant). The passage of this manor down to John de Grey's son, Henry, and thence to his heirs gives evidence that Henry was in fact the son of John de Grey's wife, Maud de Verdun.
  
  These new discoveries causes a ripple of corrections for Complete Peerage as well as for the Plantagenet Ancestry manuscript. For starters, it now appears that John de Grey had but one wife, Maud de Verdun, not two as claimed by Complete Peerage. Also, it appears Maud de Verdun was the mother of all of John de Grey's children, presumably including Iseult Saint Pierre, living 1343, whose existence and identity I mentioned in a post this past week.
  
  As for the identity of parentage of Eleanor de Bohun, Complete Peerage indicates that she married before 1267 to John de Verdun, and that they had a son, Humphrey de Verdun, born in 1267. If we assume that Eleanor was around 20 at the time of marriage, say 1265, the chronology would place Eleanor, born say 1245, as a hitherto unknown daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford (died 1275), by his 2nd wife, Maud de Avenbury. The date of the marriage of Earl Humphrey and Maud de Avenbury is not known, but presumably it was soon after the death of his 1st wife, Maud of Eu, which took place in 1241. Earl Humphrey and Maud are known to have had children, but no modern descendants have been found for this couple.
  
  Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
  http://cybergata.com/roots/8818.htm
  https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/cku2jn6rb0A:
  ______________
  
  SOURCES CONFLICT on second wife
  
  John Grey, 2nd Baron Grey de Wilton (died 28 October 1323) was the son of Reginald de Grey, 1st Baron Grey de Wilton and his wife Maud daughter and heir of William, Baron FitzHugh.
  His first office was as vice-justice of Chester from 1296 to 1297.
  He participated in the siege and capture of Caerlaverock Castle in July 1300. During the siege the English heralds composed a roll of arms, the Roll of Caerlaverock, in the form of verses of poetry, each describing the feats of valour of each noble and knight present, with a blazon of his armorials. Grey's arms are recorded as BARREE silver at the Asur entaillie o bende red engreellie.
  
  He was summoned to Parliament from 1309 to 1322. His first parliamentary appointment was that of Lord Ordainer in 1310, and was followed by an appointment as Justice of North Wales in c.1316 and Governor of Caernarfon Castle.[3] He was relieved of his constabulatory responsibilities the following year and called to raise troops in response to the insurrection led by Llywelyn Bren.
  He served as Conservator of the peace for Bedfordshire in 1320.
  In 1322, he was commanded to raise troops in Wales and join the royal muster at Coventry. He died the following year.
  
  He married
  
  1. Anne sister of William Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Groby, by whom he had a son Henry Grey, 3rd Baron Grey de Wilton.
  
  2. Maud daughter of Ralph Bassett, Baron Bassett, by whom he had a son Roger, who was summoned to Parliament in 1324.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grey,_2nd_Baron_Grey_de_Wilton
  
  ______________________
  
  John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) was born circa 1268.
  He was the son of Sir Reynold de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Maud de Longchamp [= Maud FitzHugh above].
  He married, firstly, Anne de Ferrers, daughter of William de Ferrers and Joan le Despencer.
  He married, secondly, Matilda de Verdun, daughter of John de Verdun and Eleanor Bohun.
  He died on 28 October 1323.
  He succeeded to the title of 2nd Lord Grey, of Wilton [E., 1295] on 8 January 1308/9.
  In 1311 he had granted Ruthin Castle to himself for life then to his younger son, Roger.
  He fought in the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.
  He held the office of Justiciar of North Wales in February 1314/15.
  He held the office of Governor of Caernarvon Castle.
  
  Children of John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Matilda de Verdun
  1. Sir Roger de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Ruthin) d. 6 Mar 1352/53
  2. Joan de Grey d. b 5 Apr 1353
  3. Henry de Grey, 3rd Lord Grey (of Wilton) b. 28 Oct 1281, d. 10 Dec 1342
  
  http://www.thepeerage.com/p3817.htm#i38161
  
  BIO
  BIO: from http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#JohnGreydied1323B as of 6/15/2016
  
  JOHN de Grey of Wilton, son of REYNOLD de Grey Lord Grey (of Wilton) & his second wife Emm
  
  === Additional information from genea jou ===
  Additional information from genea journey:
  NOTES:
  a. Regarding the marriages of Sir John de Grey, The Complete Peerage states "he m. 1stly (it is said), Anne, da. of Sir William de Ferrers....", and "he m. 2ndly, Maud, who is said to have been da. of Sir Ralph Basset...", the operative words here in both cases being "it is said". Douglas Richardson's findings indicate that both marriages were taken from the 1619 Visitation of Leicester, which he found on the subject of de Grey to be quite inaccurate. He noted that the manor of Debden (in Essex) was originally a Bohun property, and that this was passed to Sir John de Grey and his wife Maud. Using papal registers and dispensations, arms quarterings, etc., he has conclusively proven that Maud (note the terminology used by CP) was indeed John's wife, but she was not a Basset, but rather a Verdun, daughter of Sir John de Verdun by his second wife, Eleanor de Bohun. He could find absolutely no evidence that Sir John de Grey ever married an Anne de Ferrers. For a complete discussion by Mr. Richardson, see his initial 15 Jan 2002 posting on Soc.Genealogy.medieval entitled "Eleanor de Verdun and her daughter, Maud, wife of John de Grey of Wilton", (search words: Eleanor Verdun), and follow the thread of his subsequent informative and detailed postings. At about the same time of Mr. Richardson's discovery, John Ravilious, also a frequent poster on SGM, brought forth conclusive evidence that Sir John de Grey had an older daughter, Maud, whom he has identified from said evidence as the wife of Sir John de Moels (previously known as simply Maud). The newly-identified Maud de Grey, based on chronology, would likely be the daughter of John de Grey's first wife, who is currently unidentified, but almost certainly, as mentioned above, not Anne de Ferrers.
  http://www.geneajourney.com/grey1.html#elnrgrey
  
  === " John (d.1323), 2nd Lord of Wilton, set ===
  " John (d.1323), 2nd Lord of Wilton, settled Ruthyn on his younger son, Roger (d.1353)". (Encyc. Britannica vol.10, p.922).
  
  === New Information: ===
  New Information:
  
  • Background Information: Wife of John de Grey.
  royalancestry AT msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.0201151600.4392e754 AT posting.google.com>...
  Dear Newsgroup ~
  
  In the wake of the new discovery of Theobald de Verdun's wife, Margery de Bohun, new attention has been turned to the baronial families of Verdun and Bohun. As indicated by Complete Peerage, Theobald de Verdun's step-mother, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, is thought to have been a Bohun, she having sealed with those arms as reported by Complete Peerage sub Verdun. Chris Philips reported his findings on this matter in a post today.
  
  As it turns out, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, does in fact appear to have been a Bohun. My research indicates that Eleanor evidently had as her maritagium the manor of Debden, Essex (a Bohun manor), which property she in turn conveyed as a widow in 1275/6 to John de Grey, of Wilton, co. Hereford, and his wife, Maud. The fine conveying this property is found in Essex Feet of Fines, vol. 2, pg. 13. At his death years later, John de Grey is stated to have held the manor of Debden of Eleanor de Verdun by the service of a rose, the standard service for property granted in marriage in this period (see Cal. IPM, vol. 6, pg. 311). As such, it seems rather clear that John de Grey's wife, Maud, was the daughter of John de Verdun, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun.
  
  We can be reasonably certain that Maud de Grey was Eleanor de Verdun's daughter, as Eleanor being a Bohun surely had the manor of Debden in marriage, and in turn passed it along to her daughter, Maud. In this time period, a woman's maritagium almost always fell to her descendants, unless she happened to be childless, when she sometimes conveyed it away to strangers. In Eleanor's case, we know that she had several other male children, so the odds that she would convey her maritagium to the Grey family without there being a kinship is virtually slim to none. Also, it appears that John de Grey and his wife, Maud, were small children at the time of Eleanor de Verdun's fine. Complete Peerage indicates that John de Grey was born about 1268 (he being aged 40 at his father's death in 1308). Eleanor de Verdun's other known child, Humphrey, was born in 1267. It would be odd for Eleanor to convey her property to children, unless of course one of the parties was her own child.
  
  Following John de Grey's death, the manor of Debden, Essex was in turn held by John and Maud de Grey's son and heir, Henry de Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 8, pg. 261), as well as by a later Henry Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 17, pg. 253). At the later Henry de Grey's death, he is stated to hold the manor of "Weldebernys" in Debden of the Countess of Hereford (a Bohun descendant). The passage of this manor down to John de Grey's son, Henry, and thence to his heirs gives evidence that Henry was in fact the son of John de Grey's wife, Maud de Verdun.
  
  These new discoveries causes a ripple of corrections for Complete Peerage as well as for the Plantagenet Ancestry manuscript. For starters, it now appears that John de Grey had but one wife, Maud de Verdun, not two as claimed by Complete Peerage. Also, it appears Maud de Verdun was the mother of all of John de Grey's children, presumably including Iseult Saint Pierre, living 1343, whose existence and identity I mentioned in a post this past week.
  
  As for the identity of parentage of Eleanor de Bohun, Complete Peerage indicates that she married before 1267 to John de Verdun, and that they had a son, Humphrey de Verdun, born in 1267. If we assume that Eleanor was around 20 at the time of marriage, say 1265, the chronology would place Eleanor, born say 1245, as a hitherto unknown daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford (died 1275), by his 2nd wife, Maud de Avenbury. The date of the marriage of Earl Humphrey and Maud de Avenbury is not known, but presumably it was soon after the death of his 1st wife, Maud of Eu, which took place in 1241. Earl Humphrey and Maud are known to have had children, but no modern descendants have been found for this couple.
  
  Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
  http://cybergata.com/roots/8818.htm
  https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/cku2jn6rb0A:
  ______________
  
  SOURCES CONFLICT on second wife
  
  John Grey, 2nd Baron Grey de Wilton (died 28 October 1323) was the son of Reginald de Grey, 1st Baron Grey de Wilton and his wife Maud daughter and heir of William, Baron FitzHugh.
  His first office was as vice-justice of Chester from 1296 to 1297.
  He participated in the siege and capture of Caerlaverock Castle in July 1300. During the siege the English heralds composed a roll of arms, the Roll of Caerlaverock, in the form of verses of poetry, each describing the feats of valour of each noble and knight present, with a blazon of his armorials. Grey's arms are recorded as BARREE silver at the Asur entaillie o bende red engreellie.
  
  He was summoned to Parliament from 1309 to 1322. His first parliamentary appointment was that of Lord Ordainer in 1310, and was followed by an appointment as Justice of North Wales in c.1316 and Governor of Caernarfon Castle.[3] He was relieved of his constabulatory responsibilities the following year and called to raise troops in response to the insurrection led by Llywelyn Bren.
  He served as Conservator of the peace for Bedfordshire in 1320.
  In 1322, he was commanded to raise troops in Wales and join the royal muster at Coventry. He died the following year.
  
  He married
  
  1. Anne sister of William Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Groby, by whom he had a son Henry Grey, 3rd Baron Grey de Wilton.
  
  2. Maud daughter of Ralph Bassett, Baron Bassett, by whom he had a son Roger, who was summoned to Parliament in 1324.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grey,_2nd_Baron_Grey_de_Wilton
  
  ______________________
  
  John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) was born circa 1268.
  He was the son of Sir Reynold de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Maud de Longchamp [= Maud FitzHugh above].
  He married, firstly, Anne de Ferrers, daughter of William de Ferrers and Joan le Despencer.
  He married, secondly, Matilda de Verdun, daughter of John de Verdun and Eleanor Bohun.
  He died on 28 October 1323.
  He succeeded to the title of 2nd Lord Grey, of Wilton [E., 1295] on 8 January 1308/9.
  In 1311 he had granted Ruthin Castle to himself for life then to his younger son, Roger.
  He fought in the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.
  He held the office of Justiciar of North Wales in February 1314/15.
  He held the office of Governor of Caernarvon Castle.
  
  Children of John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Matilda de Verdun
  1. Sir Roger de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Ruthin) d. 6 Mar 1352/53
  2. Joan de Grey d. b 5 Apr 1353
  3. Henry de Grey, 3rd Lord Grey (of Wilton) b. 28 Oct 1281, d. 10 Dec 1342
  
  http://www.thepeerage.com/p3817.htm#i38161
  
  Twenty-Fourth Great Grandfather : Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather
  
  ID: Merged with a record that used the ID LTY7-J8L
  === Life Sketch ===
  New Information:
  
  • Background Information: Wife of John de Grey.
  royalancestry AT msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.0201151600.4392e754 AT posting.google.com>...
  Dear Newsgroup ~
  
  In the wake of the new discovery of Theobald de Verdun's wife, Margery de Bohun, new attention has been turned to the baronial families of Verdun and Bohun. As indicated by Complete Peerage, Theobald de Verdun's step-mother, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, is thought to have been a Bohun, she having sealed with those arms as reported by Complete Peerage sub Verdun. Chris Philips reported his findings on this matter in a post today.
  
  As it turns out, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, does in fact appear to have been a Bohun. My research indicates that Eleanor evidently had as her maritagium the manor of Debden, Essex (a Bohun manor), which property she in turn conveyed as a widow in 1275/6 to John de Grey, of Wilton, co. Hereford, and his wife, Maud. The fine conveying this property is found in Essex Feet of Fines, vol. 2, pg. 13. At his death years later, John de Grey is stated to have held the manor of Debden of Eleanor de Verdun by the service of a rose, the standard service for property granted in marriage in this period (see Cal. IPM, vol. 6, pg. 311). As such, it seems rather clear that John de Grey's wife, Maud, was the daughter of John de Verdun, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun.
  
  We can be reasonably certain that Maud de Grey was Eleanor de Verdun's daughter, as Eleanor being a Bohun surely had the manor of Debden in marriage, and in turn passed it along to her daughter, Maud. In this time period, a woman's maritagium almost always fell to her descendants, unless she happened to be childless, when she sometimes conveyed it away to strangers. In Eleanor's case, we know that she had several other male children, so the odds that she would convey her maritagium to the Grey family without there being a kinship is virtually slim to none. Also, it appears that John de Grey and his wife, Maud, were small children at the time of Eleanor de Verdun's fine. Complete Peerage indicates that John de Grey was born about 1268 (he being aged 40 at his father's death in 1308). Eleanor de Verdun's other known child, Humphrey, was born in 1267. It would be odd for Eleanor to convey her property to children, unless of course one of the parties was her own child.
  
  Following John de Grey's death, the manor of Debden, Essex was in turn held by John and Maud de Grey's son and heir, Henry de Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 8, pg. 261), as well as by a later Henry Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 17, pg. 253). At the later Henry de Grey's death, he is stated to hold the manor of "Weldebernys" in Debden of the Countess of Hereford (a Bohun descendant). The passage of this manor down to John de Grey's son, Henry, and thence to his heirs gives evidence that Henry was in fact the son of John de Grey's wife, Maud de Verdun.
  
  These new discoveries causes a ripple of corrections for Complete Peerage as well as for the Plantagenet Ancestry manuscript. For starters, it now appears that John de Grey had but one wife, Maud de Verdun, not two as claimed by Complete Peerage. Also, it appears Maud de Verdun was the mother of all of John de Grey's children, presumably including Iseult Saint Pierre, living 1343, whose existence and identity I mentioned in a post this past week.
  
  As for the identity of parentage of Eleanor de Bohun, Complete Peerage indicates that she married before 1267 to John de Verdun, and that they had a son, Humphrey de Verdun, born in 1267. If we assume that Eleanor was around 20 at the time of marriage, say 1265, the chronology would place Eleanor, born say 1245, as a hitherto unknown daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford (died 1275), by his 2nd wife, Maud de Avenbury. The date of the marriage of Earl Humphrey and Maud de Avenbury is not known, but presumably it was soon after the death of his 1st wife, Maud of Eu, which took place in 1241. Earl Humphrey and Maud are known to have had children, but no modern descendants have been found for this couple.
  
  Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
  http://cybergata.com/roots/8818.htm
  https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/cku2jn6rb0A:
  ______________
  
  SOURCES CONFLICT on second wife
  
  John Grey, 2nd Baron Grey de Wilton (died 28 October 1323) was the son of Reginald de Grey, 1st Baron Grey de Wilton and his wife Maud daughter and heir of William, Baron FitzHugh.
  His first office was as vice-justice of Chester from 1296 to 1297.
  He participated in the siege and capture of Caerlaverock Castle in July 1300. During the siege the English heralds composed a roll of arms, the Roll of Caerlaverock, in the form of verses of poetry, each describing the feats of valour of each noble and knight present, with a blazon of his armorials. Grey's arms are recorded as BARREE silver at the Asur entaillie o bende red engreellie.
  
  He was summoned to Parliament from 1309 to 1322. His first parliamentary appointment was that of Lord Ordainer in 1310, and was followed by an appointment as Justice of North Wales in c.1316 and Governor of Caernarfon Castle.[3] He was relieved of his constabulatory responsibilities the following year and called to raise troops in response to the insurrection led by Llywelyn Bren.
  He served as Conservator of the peace for Bedfordshire in 1320.
  In 1322, he was commanded to raise troops in Wales and join the royal muster at Coventry. He died the following year.
  
  He married
  
  1. Anne sister of William Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Groby, by whom he had a son Henry Grey, 3rd Baron Grey de Wilton.
  
  2. Maud daughter of Ralph Bassett, Baron Bassett, by whom he had a son Roger, who was summoned to Parliament in 1324.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grey,_2nd_Baron_Grey_de_Wilton
  
  ______________________
  
  John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) was born circa 1268.
  He was the son of Sir Reynold de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Maud de Longchamp [= Maud FitzHugh above].
  He married, firstly, Anne de Ferrers, daughter of William de Ferrers and Joan le Despencer.
  He married, secondly, Matilda de Verdun, daughter of John de Verdun and Eleanor Bohun.
  He died on 28 October 1323.
  He succeeded to the title of 2nd Lord Grey, of Wilton [E., 1295] on 8 January 1308/9.
  In 1311 he had granted Ruthin Castle to himself for life then to his younger son, Roger.
  He fought in the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.
  He held the office of Justiciar of North Wales in February 1314/15.
  He held the office of Governor of Caernarvon Castle.
  
  Children of John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Matilda de Verdun
  1. Sir Roger de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Ruthin) d. 6 Mar 1352/53
  2. Joan de Grey d. b 5 Apr 1353
  3. Henry de Grey, 3rd Lord Grey (of Wilton) b. 28 Oct 1281, d. 10 Dec 1342
  
  http://www.thepeerage.com/p3817.htm#i38161
  
  BIO
  BIO: from http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#JohnGreydied1323B as of 6/15/2016
  
  JOHN de Grey of Wilton, son of REYNOLD de Grey Lord Grey (of Wilton) & his second wife Emm
  
  === " John (d.1323), 2nd Lord of Wilton, set ===
  " John (d.1323), 2nd Lord of Wilton, settled Ruthyn on his younger son, Roger (d.1353)". (Encyc. Britannica vol.10, p.922).
  
  === Additional information from genea jou ===
  Additional information from genea journey:
  NOTES:
  a. Regarding the marriages of Sir John de Grey, The Complete Peerage states "he m. 1stly (it is said), Anne, da. of Sir William de Ferrers....", and "he m. 2ndly, Maud, who is said to have been da. of Sir Ralph Basset...", the operative words here in both cases being "it is said". Douglas Richardson's findings indicate that both marriages were taken from the 1619 Visitation of Leicester, which he found on the subject of de Grey to be quite inaccurate. He noted that the manor of Debden (in Essex) was originally a Bohun property, and that this was passed to Sir John de Grey and his wife Maud. Using papal registers and dispensations, arms quarterings, etc., he has conclusively proven that Maud (note the terminology used by CP) was indeed John's wife, but she was not a Basset, but rather a Verdun, daughter of Sir John de Verdun by his second wife, Eleanor de Bohun. He could find absolutely no evidence that Sir John de Grey ever married an Anne de Ferrers. For a complete discussion by Mr. Richardson, see his initial 15 Jan 2002 posting on Soc.Genealogy.medieval entitled "Eleanor de Verdun and her daughter, Maud, wife of John de Grey of Wilton", (search words: Eleanor Verdun), and follow the thread of his subsequent informative and detailed postings. At about the same time of Mr. Richardson's discovery, John Ravilious, also a frequent poster on SGM, brought forth conclusive evidence that Sir John de Grey had an older daughter, Maud, whom he has identified from said evidence as the wife of Sir John de Moels (previously known as simply Maud). The newly-identified Maud de Grey, based on chronology, would likely be the daughter of John de Grey's first wife, who is currently unidentified, but almost certainly, as mentioned above, not Anne de Ferrers.
  http://www.geneajourney.com/grey1.html#elnrgrey
  
  === New Information: ===
  New Information:
  
  • Background Information: Wife of John de Grey.
  royalancestry AT msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.0201151600.4392e754 AT posting.google.com>...
  Dear Newsgroup ~
  
  In the wake of the new discovery of Theobald de Verdun's wife, Margery de Bohun, new attention has been turned to the baronial families of Verdun and Bohun. As indicated by Complete Peerage, Theobald de Verdun's step-mother, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, is thought to have been a Bohun, she having sealed with those arms as reported by Complete Peerage sub Verdun. Chris Philips reported his findings on this matter in a post today.
  
  As it turns out, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, does in fact appear to have been a Bohun. My research indicates that Eleanor evidently had as her maritagium the manor of Debden, Essex (a Bohun manor), which property she in turn conveyed as a widow in 1275/6 to John de Grey, of Wilton, co. Hereford, and his wife, Maud. The fine conveying this property is found in Essex Feet of Fines, vol. 2, pg. 13. At his death years later, John de Grey is stated to have held the manor of Debden of Eleanor de Verdun by the service of a rose, the standard service for property granted in marriage in this period (see Cal. IPM, vol. 6, pg. 311). As such, it seems rather clear that John de Grey's wife, Maud, was the daughter of John de Verdun, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun.
  
  We can be reasonably certain that Maud de Grey was Eleanor de Verdun's daughter, as Eleanor being a Bohun surely had the manor of Debden in marriage, and in turn passed it along to her daughter, Maud. In this time period, a woman's maritagium almost always fell to her descendants, unless she happened to be childless, when she sometimes conveyed it away to strangers. In Eleanor's case, we know that she had several other male children, so the odds that she would convey her maritagium to the Grey family without there being a kinship is virtually slim to none. Also, it appears that John de Grey and his wife, Maud, were small children at the time of Eleanor de Verdun's fine. Complete Peerage indicates that John de Grey was born about 1268 (he being aged 40 at his father's death in 1308). Eleanor de Verdun's other known child, Humphrey, was born in 1267. It would be odd for Eleanor to convey her property to children, unless of course one of the parties was her own child.
  
  Following John de Grey's death, the manor of Debden, Essex was in turn held by John and Maud de Grey's son and heir, Henry de Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 8, pg. 261), as well as by a later Henry Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 17, pg. 253). At the later Henry de Grey's death, he is stated to hold the manor of "Weldebernys" in Debden of the Countess of Hereford (a Bohun descendant). The passage of this manor down to John de Grey's son, Henry, and thence to his heirs gives evidence that Henry was in fact the son of John de Grey's wife, Maud de Verdun.
  
  These new discoveries causes a ripple of corrections for Complete Peerage as well as for the Plantagenet Ancestry manuscript. For starters, it now appears that John de Grey had but one wife, Maud de Verdun, not two as claimed by Complete Peerage. Also, it appears Maud de Verdun was the mother of all of John de Grey's children, presumably including Iseult Saint Pierre, living 1343, whose existence and identity I mentioned in a post this past week.
  
  As for the identity of parentage of Eleanor de Bohun, Complete Peerage indicates that she married before 1267 to John de Verdun, and that they had a son, Humphrey de Verdun, born in 1267. If we assume that Eleanor was around 20 at the time of marriage, say 1265, the chronology would place Eleanor, born say 1245, as a hitherto unknown daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford (died 1275), by his 2nd wife, Maud de Avenbury. The date of the marriage of Earl Humphrey and Maud de Avenbury is not known, but presumably it was soon after the death of his 1st wife, Maud of Eu, which took place in 1241. Earl Humphrey and Maud are known to have had children, but no modern descendants have been found for this couple.
  
  Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
  http://cybergata.com/roots/8818.htm
  https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/cku2jn6rb0A:
  ______________
  
  SOURCES CONFLICT on second wife
  
  John Grey, 2nd Baron Grey de Wilton (died 28 October 1323) was the son of Reginald de Grey, 1st Baron Grey de Wilton and his wife Maud daughter and heir of William, Baron FitzHugh.
  His first office was as vice-justice of Chester from 1296 to 1297.
  He participated in the siege and capture of Caerlaverock Castle in July 1300. During the siege the English heralds composed a roll of arms, the Roll of Caerlaverock, in the form of verses of poetry, each describing the feats of valour of each noble and knight present, with a blazon of his armorials. Grey's arms are recorded as BARREE silver at the Asur entaillie o bende red engreellie.
  
  He was summoned to Parliament from 1309 to 1322. His first parliamentary appointment was that of Lord Ordainer in 1310, and was followed by an appointment as Justice of North Wales in c.1316 and Governor of Caernarfon Castle.[3] He was relieved of his constabulatory responsibilities the following year and called to raise troops in response to the insurrection led by Llywelyn Bren.
  He served as Conservator of the peace for Bedfordshire in 1320.
  In 1322, he was commanded to raise troops in Wales and join the royal muster at Coventry. He died the following year.
  
  He married
  
  1. Anne sister of William Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Groby, by whom he had a son Henry Grey, 3rd Baron Grey de Wilton.
  
  2. Maud daughter of Ralph Bassett, Baron Bassett, by whom he had a son Roger, who was summoned to Parliament in 1324.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grey,_2nd_Baron_Grey_de_Wilton
  
  ______________________
  
  John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) was born circa 1268.
  He was the son of Sir Reynold de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Maud de Longchamp [= Maud FitzHugh above].
  He married, firstly, Anne de Ferrers, daughter of William de Ferrers and Joan le Despencer.
  He married, secondly, Matilda de Verdun, daughter of John de Verdun and Eleanor Bohun.
  He died on 28 October 1323.
  He succeeded to the title of 2nd Lord Grey, of Wilton [E., 1295] on 8 January 1308/9.
  In 1311 he had granted Ruthin Castle to himself for life then to his younger son, Roger.
  He fought in the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.
  He held the office of Justiciar of North Wales in February 1314/15.
  He held the office of Governor of Caernarvon Castle.
  
  Children of John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Matilda de Verdun
  1. Sir Roger de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Ruthin) d. 6 Mar 1352/53
  2. Joan de Grey d. b 5 Apr 1353
  3. Henry de Grey, 3rd Lord Grey (of Wilton) b. 28 Oct 1281, d. 10 Dec 1342
  
  http://www.thepeerage.com/p3817.htm#i38161
  
  Twenty-Fourth Great Grandfather : Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather
  
  ID: Merged with a record that used the ID LTY7-J8L

Preferred Parents:
Father: Reynold de Grey, b. ABT 1235   d. 5 APR 1308
Mother: Maud,   

Family 1: Maud de Bassett,    b. 1256 in Drayton Basset, Staffordshire, England    d. 28 OCT 1323

• m. ABT 1277

Family 2: Maud de Verdun,    b. 1256 in Drayton Bassett, Staffordshire, England, United Kingdom    d. 23 OCT 1323 in Wilton, Herefordshire, England, United Kingdom

1. Henry de Grey - III Lord Grey of Wilton, b. 28 OCT 1282 in Wilton, Herefordshire, England     d. 10 DEC 1342 in Shirland, Derbyshire, England
2. Joan de Grey, b. 1283 in Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales     d. 5 APR 1353 in Drayton Bassett, Staffordshire, England
3. Maud de Grey, b. 1270 in Wilton, Herefordshire, England     d. 1298 in Maperton, Somerset, England
4. Roger DeGrey, 1st Baron Grey of Ruthin, b. 1290 in Wilton Castle, Ros-on-Wye, Herefordshire, England     d. 6 MAR 1353 in Ruthyn Castle, Denbighshire, Wales

Family 3: Anne de Ferres of Groby,    b. ABT 1264 in Of,Groby,Leicestershire,England    d. 8 AUG 1337 in Groby, Leicestershire, England

1. Joan de Grey, b. 1283 in Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales     d. 5 APR 1353 in Drayton Bassett, Staffordshire, England
2. Henry de Grey - III Lord Grey of Wilton, b. 28 OCT 1282 in Wilton, Herefordshire, England     d. 10 DEC 1342 in Shirland, Derbyshire, England

Sources:

1. Title: Dictionary of National Biography, Volumes 1-20, 22
   Author: Stephen, Sir Leslie, ed.; London, England: Oxford University Press; Dictionary of National Biography, Volumes 1-20, 22; Volume: Vol 08; Page: 634
   Publication: Name: https://search.ancestry.com/collections/1981/records/26310;
   
2. Title: Eleanor de Verdun, and her daughter, Maud, wife of John de Grey, of Wilton - soc.genealogy.medieval
   Publication: Name: https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/cku2jn6rb0A;
   Page: Evidence since 2002 has indicated that John only married once to Maud de Verdun, not Maud Basset as previously thought
   
3. Title: England, Extracted Parish and Court Records
   Publication: Name: https://search.ancestry.com/collections/5877/records/28256;
   
4. Title: The Peerage
   Publication: Name: http://www.thepeerage.com/p3817.htm#i38161;
   
5. Title: Internet Archive: Proceedings; Pedigree of Hastings; Nicholas de Moels
   Author: Internet Archive: Proceedings by Somersetshire Archaeological and Natural History Society; published 1891;.
   Publication: Name: https://archive.org/details/proceedings36some_0/page/148/mode/2up?q=John+Moels;
   Note: Nicholas de Moels: married to Hawyse, daughter & co-heiress of James (?Henry) de Newmarch of Cadbury & Saperton; -Roger, son & heir, (died 13 Ed I) who married Alice, daughter & heiress of William de Preux.; --John, son & heir, aged 26 at his father's death, married ...daughter of ...Grey of Ruthyn; ---Nicholas, son & heir, married Margaret, daughter of Hugh Courtenay, Baron of Okehampton (died 28 Feb 1291) by Eleanor, daughter of Hugh le Despencer. She died 23 Ed III.; ----Richard, son & heir, died without offspring; ----Sir John Moels of North Cadbury, Somerset & Berkhampstead, Hertsford, married Joan, daughter of Sir Richard Lovell of Castle Cary; -----Muriel, daughter & coheiress, married Sir Thomas de Courtenay (4th son of Hugh de Courtenay, created Earl of Devon 22 Feb 1335, by Agnes, daughter of John Lord St John. He died in 1356.; -----Isabel, daughter & coheiress, had North Cadbury, married William Botreaux of Botreaux Castle (Boscastle), Cornwall.
   
6. Title: John de Grey Baron - cybergata.com
   Publication: Name: http://cybergata.com/roots/8817.htm;
   Page: New evidence indicates his one and only wife was Maud de Verdun
   
7. Title: BHO: Inquisitions Post Mortem, Edward II, File 82; Pages 300-314; Item 517; John de Grey (died 1323)
   Author: BHO: Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 6, Edward II; Pages 300-314; Inquisitions Post Mortem, Edward II, File 82; Item 517. JOHN DE GREY. Writ to Master John Walewayn, escheator, 27 December, 17 Edward II. Writ to the escheator in cos. Hereford, Gloucester &c. 26 December, 17 Edward II. .
   Publication: Name: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol6/pp300-314;
   Note: 517. JOHN DE GREY. Writ to Master John Walewayn, escheator, 27 December, 17 Edward II. (1323) Writ to the escheator in cos. Hereford, Gloucester &c. 26 December, 17 Edward II. BUCKINGHAM. Inq. 1 February, 17 Edward II. (1324) Great Brichul. The manor (extent given), and the advowson of the church, held for life, by fine levied in the king’s court between John de Stoke, parson of Strextone, and the said John, with successive remainders to Roger his son and the heirs of his body, to Roger son of John de Mules and the heirs of his body, and to the right heirs of the said John de Grey, of the heirs of John Basset, service unknown.
   
8. Title: John de Grey, "Find A Grave Index"
   Author: "Find A Grave Index," database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVG5-K3SP : 15 June 2022), John de Grey, ; Burial, Ruthin, , Denbighshire, Wales, Collegiate and Parochial Church of St. Peter; citing record ID 126172246, Find a Grave, http://www.findagrave.com.
   Publication: Name: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVG5-K3SP;
   
9. Title: Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins
   Publication: Name: https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p368.htm#i11035;
   
10. Title: [Grey of Wilton]The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, by George Edward Cokayne, Vol. VI, p. 171+
    Author: this is a faulty link to Vols 1-5; citation is from Vol 6
    Publication: Name: https://archive.org/details/completepeerageo02coka/page/n6;
    Note: History of the Greys of Wilton beginning p. 171
    

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